Thanks so much for listening to Dr. J. E. Williams and Dr. Alan Goldhamer.
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Kev
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I really like Dr. Williams, very calm, poised, and on topic. Fun stuff.
I think the most confusing part of this series is that it’s called a ‘debate’.
If you look at this as just as information and various ideas and strategies that work for different kinds of people.
The reality of a lot of what has been said is obvious – there are cultures and societies that have thrived on all kinds of wild, raw, plant and animal food.
It’s also obvious that today we live in a world that is not governed or controlled by the same rules of antiquity – therefore the ‘rules’ have changed for all of us.
I think we should all choose wisely, not have an ego – and ALWAYS control our diet, and never let our ‘ism’ control us.
-dave
what is a ego? can you say it simple!
“It’s also obvious that today we live in a world that is not governed or controlled by the same rules of antiquity – therefore the ‘rules’ have changed for all of us.”
some have changed some not. That is that our craving and needs are more and more lost and we go on things we cant go with.
control diet. Its more than diet. we have to live in a ecosystem. look behind food. what is it in the system. Also our live. and how we get this food. that join harvesting or hunting good food. its also do i live in the city in the country. this isnt just food. still a lot is wrapped in plastic. where do we live? where do we belong to? ego is an apologize to look away and dont listen.
the system is rotten at some places.so we be a player in a whole world.
Yellow, it is more than ecosystem too, but our culture. Dr. Will Tuttle’s book “The World Peace Diet” covers that issue brilliantly. And of course our culture has a lot to do with how our ego develops.
What would Dr. R.O. Young say about the Eskimo’s intestinal villi and compaction of their small intestine crypts–since they subsist on a mostly all meat diet? What would buffer their blood pH?
Dr. Williams is a pleasure … sounds genuinely humble … and what fantastic experiences he’s had.
“Take out the dogma, take out the lies, take out the marketing, and then find out – and create a new ethics and science. Two styles of eating … healthy vegetarian and conscientious omnivore” – that would describe my household. Interesting.
BTW … I pay little attention when people talk about cavities. I come from a family of 5 siblings … no cavities for any of us … we’re all post 50 … we all eat dramatically differently from each other. And I wouldn’t say that any of us are truly healthy – for different reasons. But we don’t have cavities! LOL
Really enjoy listening to Dr. Williams! Sweet man. Love the monks and fish story … I can relate to this story on many levels.
hej Jensey,
you make me interested. Where are you comming from? Where is your European origin? Where are your roots? Do you livein the city or on the countryside?
What does your family eat? Does they clean the teeth? Who eats which diet? Do they have work? Do they havr good income good jobs, good social life?
Is there stress in the family?
i could ask much more. I would like to know all this. i hope i can learn something. I think in some relation marriage, relation which are bond for a long time. Give trust and security which provides good health and so foar no cavities.
The social thing, how connencted and working are our relations on a long run
Hey there ‘yellow’ … I’m happy to share a bit more.
I’m a country girl who has also spent some years in the city. My life has been very rural to urban to semi-rural. Let’s see … my 4 sibs have a similar pattern. All but one of us are currently living in a rural/urban mixed setting … the other sib is in South Florida – crazy-ville!!!
My father was a farm boy – English/French heritage … My mother was a city girl – German/Irish/Welsh heritage. My father said his teeth were always fair to lousy. My mother said her teeth were great until she had children. When my parents were growing up, their food was what we now would consider local, organic, healthy, and for the most part, non-toxic. To them it was just the food grown around them (particularly for my father). Both of my parents were emotional eaters.
We were all given fluoride tablets as kids … that’s what doctors told mothers to do in the 50′s/60′s. Only my oldest brother was breast fed.
I am the only sibling who believes in organic food (or local food). I am also the only vegetarian (sometimes vegan) among us. 3 of my sibs will eat anything (SAD diet). I’d say that one of my sibs eats a healthy diet, though he doesn’t focus on organic or local. He is the healthiest among us … he doesn’t think much about the role that food plays in this life other than providing him with fuel. This is an important point, because the rest of us are emotional over-eaters (like my parents) … and have way more problems than he does.
Food-wise, I am the odd-ball in my family. I opened my eyes to the quality of food at age 19. Ironically, this has not made me the healthiest. Though I will say, that when the ‘health-shit hits the fan’ … I’m the one they call.
Hope this helps you with your pondering! Cheers …
interesting – there is research showing i think that kissing a person with no cavities will confer protection due to the oral flora you must all carry. there’s a commersial probiotic made from healthy mouth isolates – forget its name they sell it for dogs and pets too. the first one isolated and sold is called blissk12 – the newer one is available at amazon if you want a quick google. maybe you could all contribute mouth flora samples to an interested biotech company in return for a share
How would the buddhists and fish incident, which implies a spiritual factor influences how we assimilate food, tally with his idea that we need to match diet our genetics-as passed to us by our parents and ancestors.
If he didn’t inherit a DNA match for
vegetarianism, he could not have (necessarily) passed it to his children. Yet, he brought them up vegetarian thru their most formative years and then had a change of heart and added meat to their diet in their teens–and they are healthy.
Great talk. I really enjoyed this one.
I particularly enjoyed hearing Dr. Goldhamer’s approach. I’m glad you were able to interview him. He’s my favorite so far =)
I must say I have to agree with you on this one.Dr Goldhamer’s no nonsense approach really impressed me. I was very impressed with Dr Cousens and Dr Fuhrman too Maybe I am biased but they are all very similar?
I agree, I was especially impressed with Dr Goldhamer and Dr Fuhrman. I think their approach is somewhat similar but also sounds too me like they were the most direct and able to answer everything in a way that made sense and was supported by everything I have read and heard.
Having had many problems with eczema to the point of blistered and bleeding skin as well as allergies, I have found that following a diet similar to what they say has been the only thing to have cleared up ALL of my problems!
..and I can’t count the amount of doctors and naturopaths I went to first!
Does anone understand aboutthe study he made with vegans and vegetarians in third generation in california. He did blood test. tested something low. and what else?
Seems like he was reluctant to delve too much into this, but gave a lot of his opinion. Please see my comment below as to why I dismissed such claims…
Can’t wait to listen to this one
Being grateful and thankful for what food we do have is a lovely way to make food choices. Whole, fresh, live foods seems to be the key to almost everyone whether they are on the side of all plant based or omnivorous including animal products.
Interesting discussions…as many have noted Debate is a misnomer.
I can understand you can cure high blood pressure, diabetes or some other things, but can a health promoting diet cure a person of pancreatic cancer who has been given 6-8 months to live?
That would be enough time for the body to heal itself.
You could download this audio file:
Massimo Mazzucco – Cancer: the Forbidden Cures
http://radiolibertyarchives.gsradio.net:8080/020211d.mp3
http://www.soundwaves2000.com/radio_liberty/
very honest … straightforward — almost scary — but its what we need to hear… I like hearing the truth — especially from super passionate people like Dr. Goldhamer
Dr. Goldhamer’s diet suggestions were so simple and make such sense. These particular interviews were so interesting today. Thank you for bringing these to us, Kevin, Annemarie, and Renegade Health team!
For me Dr. Goldhamer was the best speaker of all. I have have problems with high blood pressure for years and he has provided the only answer that works. Thanks a million!
Really great debates Kev!! Dr. Williams made total sense for people choosing some meat/fish in diet, and I enjoyed his demeanor/speaking. Dr. Goldhamer seemed angry and I understand that frustration having watched two people whom I loved dearly, eat so badly and choose to die fairly young. The green juice fast I was just on for 8 days, felt like FASTING to me, and yet it was, according to Dr. G, rather,a modified food diet. Wow, can’t imagine water fasting for that long…and so happy it works for that many people. Imagine they are able to rest alot and not do much. I get the importance he of sleep – believe most people don’t get nearly enough!! Thank you Kevin for this great week of talks!!! oxox
I belief eating only vegan foods is a form of fasting as well. That’s the reason it can be so helpful to the body to heal itself. And that’s why many people can’t and shouldn’t do it for to long a period of time.
Boy did Dr Goldhammer present himself as though he was angry or defending a psychological identity or his business/life model based on veganism. He also sounded like he has a sinus cold or blocked sinus. He felt hyper. Dr. Williams presented the topic more calmly and certainly discussed a balance of both side of the food coin resulting in a more coming into wholeness, balance and harmony with all of life.
I thought Dr. Goldhamer was passionate about the topic, not hyper. Most would agree that a vegan lifestyle is healing. The questions I have is it sustainable and health long term. My guess is that it is but you have to take careful actions to nurture yourself with a health promoting lifestyle.
del,
i agree Goldhamer was passionate and simply talks fast to give us a lot of the best info available in a brief hour.
I am 71 and have been a Vegan for 40 years; yes it is sustainable.
I have also done water fasting several times for about a week; my one regret is that I haven’t done at least 30 days when i was younger. Dr Joel Fuhrman MD fasted for 46 days to recover from a sports injury when he was 20yo and an Olympic hopeful; glad he decide to become MD specializing in fasting and nutritional healing.
For the last 9 years my wife and I have been following Dr Fuhrman’s Nutritarian diet based on an Einstein type equation[ health = nutrients/calories ] which basically tells us which foods provide the maximum nutrients per calorie? GREENS !
Dr Goldhamer’s and Dr Fuhrman’s approach to diet is basically the same and which i consider to be the most common sense, practical, and the best honest science.
OH! recently, my wife and i also added green juicing( greens, carrots, apples etc ) after being inspired by the documentary( coming out in April ) http://www.fatsickandnearlytdead.com which is very entertaining, informative and extremely inspiring ! check it out!
correction:
http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com
I don’t think it is sustainable and healthy long term but good for a cleanse/detox.
Dr. Goldhamer mentions putting diabetics on this water fast. Is that safe? My husband is a type 2, and he can barely fast one meal.
A great thanks to kevin Gianni for this wonderful, enlightening and fun series, and for making it widely and freely available.
Kudos.
Haim
We sure do have different points of view! My impression was that Dr. Goldhamer was joyless. As with Dr. Robert O Young, I felt he was a bit too much into the science and the studies and not enough into the true joy of balanced eating and living.
Can’t wait for Will Tuttle & Sally Fallon! When?
these days of pollution air, water, earth and animals, it’s good to be sober and understand a little of honest science of Dr F and Dr G and be able to recognize the pseudo-science of some of the others especially those representing the WPF
reference:
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/the-truth-about-the-weston-price-foundation.html
extract from above link:
“Actually you’re wrong; Fuhrman is correct across the board in this article.
The only thing he left out is that Weston Price himself recommended a vegetarian diet as healthiest.
The scam is that the people who created the “Weston Price Foundation” and took his name (he was dead so he couldn’t object) doesn’t give the public the actual recommendations of the guy whose name they took.
It’s been fairly easy for the meat industry to hijack Price’s name and create a shell organization to promote meat-eating, and dupe people like you. That’s too bad, but we see it every day when big companies make fake organizations to try to help sell their products. Big Tobacco did it for many years, to try to combat research that came out showing smoking was harmful, and we see the meat industry doing it too…”
I am very disappointed in Kevin inviting the WPF representatives… what’s the point… haven’t we learned anything from the pseudo-science of the tobacco industry…
everyone should be aware that we live in a period of info explosion which also includes a lot of easy misinformation…
joy comes from honest science, honest health, honest spirituality, honest life, not selling out to false temporary and addictive pleasures…
“be happy, don’t worry”
Maybe there are some bias on a Western Price Foundation.
Still it has enough followers who regain a better constitution and a better health.
You imagine What the Western Price Foundation praise is nothing less people used to live in the 18th or in the last centuries.
Its recovering traditions which lead to health. Of cuarse one point its which sinks in the lake. is that people in old days worked hard physically. The Western Price Foundation maybe to much focus on the food issue. I would they its a healthy way and if you have other health factors in life life movement comunity it can be very healthy. And dont forget there are realy fatsoluble Vitamin, and Raw milk realy helps people. Why there is this challange between veganism and a traditional Western Diet. Look at amish people, I heard some of them are quiet healthy.SOme arent. I think this is more a mysterious thing a mixed plant meat milk diet. This is very lost traditions, and people were healthy in the past.
Western Price Foundation praise, prepared grains and seed and legumes. Sprouted, soaked, fermented, cooked.
The other things are meat which is high in fatsoluble vitamins. If every one who follows Western Price Foundations claims is healthy. Its just a aspect which give interesting experiences. Voices of how to stay healthy with a amount of animal food.
I dont really understand this text on the westernprice foundation on the vegan vegetarian site. It is very fragmented and poibts out in a different tradition. If you go well with a vegan vegetarian diet go for it and share your health and result. Some go very well includeing thought of the Western Price Foundation. I dont think the Wastern Price People are perfect. The claims from the oppesite is often very simple. I think that health is a multidimensional multilayerd thing. So the claims on Western Price Foundation have to be Multilayerd and multidimensional.
There are studies that eating meat is more ecologicaly and sustainable than being vegetarian or vegan. This is based on good raised organic diary and meat. This happend in the past two three years.
The radicalism of supporters of a plant based diet often dont see the reality. If you go to north europe, north norway. Go into a supermarkt and see the amount of vegetable. Yeah there are some vegetable also people farm up there. The most thing they have is fish. And this is healthy. A lot people dont get ill often. Iam sure in addition they need a medical assistence.
Its shows the necesarrity to go back to our traditional diets rather to skip on a whole vegetarian diet. A plant based diet is what everyone trys to figure out. Maybe a traditional diet based on Western Price is more healthy than Soda, Pizza, Whiteflour Bread with , Marlmelade with sugar, sweet fruit juices. That is the reality. That at some remote places people go for junk food high in bad sugar high in bad salt high in bad fats. If they would return to a traditional diet like Western Price Foundation points out, they would regain health.
Not everyone lives in the city with acess to superfood and a big varierty of greens and fruits and other vegetables.
Western Praise dont doubt that a vegetarian diet is bad. Ithink the real bias isnt made by Western Price or his Foundation the real bias is made up by Dr. Fuehrmann and the vegan people.
Westerns Price’s Way can be good. It dont have to be. Be cautious about that. A lot people on the earth gain health from animal based food.
I would personally go more vegan diet. A continously plant based diet.
In vegetables are also pesticide in it. Or bacteria.It is possible to give manure to the soil which is plant based or which comes from humman. In the eco organic food buissness, espacially biodynamic or even other groups used animal dung.
SO you will get somehow any way some animal stuff in the food.
There is possibility to reduce this animal manure or the animal stuff. This is a very noble goal. I totally admire this goal of a vegan diet to help the earth and the animals.
I found some studies or articles that a vegetarian and organic meat diet is better. ican put them here right now. I think it was found out in England.
This brings me to the next point. You are mostly from European origin, maybe i am wrong .From the experts i see a lot european descent in their way to behave and the way they look like, honestly the skin colour. It s also mixed.
THat mean different descence mix from America and Europe, Asia, from All over the world.
Still there is the beleave and some studies that people need to eat that what was eaten in their ancestral line. This isnt thousand millions ago, this is may just hundret or two hundret years ago. Look there was a plant based diet, if you look in Europe. Maybe they werent so old. They by the way had a vivd health.
So ask your self what kind of health do 9i need. Do i need health for working physically, for spiritual things. I tihkn it differs very much.i write so much.
Pseude Science of the tabacco industry. You mean the Altrai group having inhold Kraft food and phillip morris. This as example. This is a big cooperation dude. This is huge this isnt something compared to Western Price People. Altria and Kraft food. Iam so often shocked how people not knw what is Europe, what is the Un what is a Cooperation. Maybe you need to focus your learning on how our global world is entangled, than you not make this discriminating claims.
Comparing Western Price Foundation whith lies of tabacco industrie. As example Western Price and the Altria group. This is funny and misleading.
Learn the basics in international politics. it maybe gives us more pece as always claim on a hundret percent vegan based diet.
Just think some meat eater right now makes for you consumers treates that you get this food. and this in the international trade system of this global world.
We are living in globalisation and some arguments people pointing here out or experts are very much based on a protected lifestyle. Im sure there are healthy people in india and china. They wont live like the so called experts claim and praise it, there is more calmness settleness groundness and peace in they way.
Weston Price did not recommend a vegetarian diet. I highly recommend that you read his book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.
You are out of your mind because:
1. If Kevin was to invite only vegans then the whole debate would not make sense. We are supposed to hear all points of view, not just one side.
2. If Weston Price Foundation was founded by the big meat industry then they would be promoting commercial meat wouldn’t they? Not grassfed, wholesome food.
Anatol, stop the hate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation
some views on animal and plantbased diets
I don’t see hate in his comment. I see his point of view. You apparently just don’t agree.
Dear Sue,
truth is not hate… sometimes truth hurts because it uncovers untruth… but truth is love… eventually… for example:
1929 Gandhi said that smoking is not only a nasty habit but it creates cancer; well i’m sure some said that Gandhi must hate the tobacco companies… but Gandhi didn’t hate anyone… and it took several generations of some honest science to win out over the pseudo-science( bought and paid for by tobacco ) before truth won out… and now all of us with some common sense know that smoking does create cancer…
for those interested and not afraid of truth, good to read “Diet for a New America” by John Robbins… you can start by reading reviews at amazon.com
in the end Jesus said “Dear God, forgive them… for they know not what they do” but that didn’t stop him from speaking truth about greed, hypocrisy, brutality which angered others…
my love to all !
do not be afraid of truth… which resides in the silence of your heart… not in the noisy thoughts in the head…
the first 31 years of my life i was a meat eater… the last 40 years of my life i have been a reasonably good vegan… so i know from experience when those who favor meat & dairy too much are deceiving themselves and others…
thanks for listening to my 2cents POV, your POV may be different…
I already knew some of the BASIC dos & don’ts,- but – beyond that,-after hearing Dr Williams, it really appears difficult for people to make decisions about more definitive personal health food choices.(Blood typing, is certainly not sufficient.)
While there has been a wide variety of specific foods that have proven healthy for certain cultures, it seems disadvantageous & inefficient to use a total trial & error approach,- for us today.
Do not have a good answer, to this.
Am about 15 mins in, Dr. Williams is great so far, wonderful attitude and manner.
I feel there is a factor that goes missed in dietary debates which could explain the health of indigenous people regardless of specific foods eaten, also explains the crooked teeth aspect to a degree.
The Buetyko method proposes that the volume of air breathed per breath is the main determining factor of health. The higher the volume, the lower body oxygenation and vice versa. There is a diagnostic test, the “Control Pause” where one times how low long they can comfortably hold their breath for, which according to the method, gives an accurate indication of body oxygenation.
At a 60s Pause, one is apparently immune to “diseases of civilisation” as Buteyko called them. These people have much lower nutritional needs, extreme digestive efficiency, antibodies released by the saliva that keep the mouth clean and negate the need for dental cleanings, calm focused mind & many other benefits.
Very low CP’s are at risk of chronic disease, have imbalanced electrolytes and pH which is the body accomodating to blood gas imbalances, involuntary though processes which are often distroted views of reality, and basically many of the bodies systems breaking down.
Buteyko claimed factors that increase the breathing are overeating, lack of exercise, over use of central heating, stress, mouth breathing & nutrient deficiencies. These are all common in modern Western life.
Mouth breathing due to the lack of pressure from the tongue and lips upon the teeth, causes improper development & combined with the body eliminating it’s own minerals, ph imbalance & poor diet, it is easy to see why the teeth of Westerners are poor compared to indigenous peoples.
Many people have cured themselves from diseases that can be triggered and/or managed with diet using the Buteyko method, and can therefore be more free with their food intake (however Buteyko does have common sense dietary recommendations such as avoid processed foods, too many heavy foods, sugar and instead focus on natural whole foods.
Anyway I am not doing the system justice with this brief description, however if you are interested I recommend you do you own research. The site http://www.normalbreathing.com has the best, most affordable (as well as lots of free) information; there are many low quality Buteyko sites out there by people who clearly just want to make money.
All the best
Posting this the morning after. Wow … first time I had the urge to tune out someone. What the heck is Dr. Goldhamer so angry about? I felt like he was pounding me with his words … ouch! Funny how my impression matching his last name … LOL … except I think he’d be more effective with showing us his ‘gold’ with less ‘hammer’ … just a thought.
Couldn’t last through the whole interview. And I say this as someone who would love going for a cleanse at TrueNorth Health!
Dr. Goldhamer and Dr. Young are very similar. They are both uptight and pounding on you. I tune out people like that very quickly. BTW regarding Dr. Goldhamer’s success rate with his patients… If you take anyone from SAD diet and all the processed food they are going to recover from high blood pressure whether they eat some grassfed meat or not.
Jensey, it’s interesting that you took Dr. Goldhamer so personally and that you didn’t feel the same about Dr. Young. My impression was that Dr. Goldhammer was very passionate and trying to be helpful. I can see why after treating a lot of people with dis ease he would be serious and bold. Some people need that and respond favorably to it. Although I don’t subscribe to all he promotes, I appreciated his message and style.
Cheers!
Yikes! I couldn’t stand Dr. Young … just so you know. Hearing Dr. Goldhamer was probably just ‘too much’ … you know, as in total load.
…WOW… i had never before heard of this alan goldhamer guy, but he makes a lot of sense and corroborates much of what i have read in the scientific literature.
as a professional researcher, i look for those whose words are based in sound research.
yes he is passionate in his speaking, but there is a lot of BS out there that he is speaking out against.
Exactly, I’m very surprised by the number of replies where folks believe that Goldhammer was over the top. He was most certainly NOT. My guess is that he either didn’t say what these folks wanted to hear OR he didn’t use the ‘soundbites’ (like squirrel teeth) that others have used, that provide no factual information but seem to resonate. Both the speakers tonight left out these soundbites and provided information that can be considered and truly evaluated. Sure he cut off Kevin in a few cases, but this was supposed to be a debate, not a one-sided lecture.
One last note … since you must not have heard, Chuck. This is no longer a debate … they ARE one-sided lectures with Kevin asking each person specific questions.
I did say ‘supposed’ ;-}
I had heard of him (Dr. Goldhamer) … and cruised his website – I’d LOVE to go to TrueNorth – and heard him speak (briefly and with others)at a Cafe Gratitude event. Last night was a very different experience of him.
For myself, I think I’ve heard about all that I need to hear … from everyone! … LOL … but I remain open to expanding.
I’ve been to True North- twice – almost died. There’s a “gut it out”, aids, no enemas or anything other than hard core fasting on distilled water. In my experience, this is extremely dangerous in these toxic time. Good for Goldhammer that he hasn’t killed anyone. In my opinion he’s a zealot, implacable. Overall it was a great experience in that despite my proximity to serious injury/death while in their care, I learned never again to give over my well-being to anyone else, even when I believe in fasting.
if you want to fast again but have problems with constipation, use magnesium dioxide… it’s a safe and natural supplement… a little of it is just a magnesium supplement… a little more is a stool softener… and more than that will give you diarrhea… get familiar with it first…
but when you are on your right diet, then you should not need a laxative… if you need laxative, your diet is not the right one for you… regardless what diet you are one, you still need to customize it… like Goldhamer said… if you cannot digest it, don’t eat it… until you can… this is the value of listening with a quiet heart… you learn something useful even from a terrorist…
but don’t misunderstand me concerning Goldhamer… in my POV, Goldhamer & Fuhrman make the most common sense, use the best honest science and give us approaches that just about anyone can follow… food that you can buy at your local supermarket… with minimum of inexpensive supplements… without all the scare tactics used by others to force you to buy very expensive super-supplements…
if you want, read their common sense books… may take a little effort to understand, but will be worthwhile…
check out http://www.drfuhrman.com & http://www.diseaseproof.com & http://www.eatrightamerica.com/home which have loads of free info plus membership to fuhrman.com gives you the support of interacting via online forum with hundreds of other members and also ask the doctor at no extra charge… membership fee is minimal… basically you get loads of info, your questions answered… and you decide and make effort…
love to everyone, everywhere, especially all the innocent animals !
love to all…
Dr. Goldhammer and Dr. Young are both so arrogant when they speak. Extremely defensive, hard to listen too. Both their diets seem unbalanced, drinking green drinks all day and eating 4-6 avocadoes does not seem right nor does eliminating salt. These diets may be very good for short time healing but not sustaining for long periods of time. I love this debate
my wife and i have experimented with Young’s diet… the only thing he is right about is the value of eating lots of greens… but even here he is way extreme about drinking water all day with green powder( which he sells)… completely unnecessary… also way too many and unnecessary other expensive supplements which he produces and sells… everything else, lots of oil & salt etc, in my POV, makes no common sense… he is a driven individual and sees to burn all that stuff up… but for how long?
i used to know quite a well known naturophatic doctor who carried nuts in his pocket and was snacking throughout the day, he died from a heart attack in his 50′s
while nuts especially walnuts are good for the healthy fats, they should be limited to 6 per day… or something like that… according to the sage advice of Dr Fuhrman and others
my wife and I follow for 9 years now Dr Fuhrman’s “Eat To Live” lifestyle which is very close to what Dr Goldhamer teaches and in my forty years of veganism, it’s the best…
love to all… especially all the innocent animals…
rest in the silence & wisdom of your heart instead of the noisy fearful thoughts in your head… be wise and discriminate truth from falsehood… love from fear…
Dr Williams said that a group of vegetarians he studied had 3 times the amino acids they actually needed but that complete proteins were another story…..insinuating that they were deficient in actual good protein.
That doesn’t make any sense or is at least very incomplete information. What does he mean by what he said and why should there be any deficiency in protein if the amino acids were present in abundance???
If you eat “complete proteins” they get all broken down as they digest anyways so all you enbd up with is a bunch of amino acids. So how does doing the work to digest the “complete protein” do one any better than an abundance of these same amino acids otherwise???
I fully agree. Dr. Williams seemed to have a lot of conclusions based solely on opinion.
Dr Williams also says that when he started his young teenaged children on some animal protein they “blossomed and filled out”. Well, isn’t that the very stage in life when young people normally blossom and fill out? How can we know that the animal protein had anything to do with it??
Thank you so much Kevin for tonight’s speakers.
Having been confused and concerned by some of the information given by the earlier speakers, these two have put my mind at rest.
I found Dr Goldhamer very helpful indeed and contrary to what others have said, I personally found him to be full of light and love.
I’d love you to have asked him two more things:
1. what type of water does he use for the water fast?
and
2. What kind of effect does his type of diet have on children and the potential health of future generations (as discussed by Dr. Williams)
Those answers would complete the jigsaw puzzle for me!
Thanks again awesome!
For me some of the speakers more feel like illusianarist. like david copperfield of the health buisness. I dont claim that it isnt working. I can imagine that it is a experimenting state. So on the long run it can has harm to people. The water fast shocks me, her skin looks great. Also she looks having no nutrient and out of powers. I met people who suffered from fasting and get mentally and physically totally isolated and down. I think this is more illusion that real health benefit. This is black magic for me. Not good for a sustainable living.
I would like to know what blood types the tribes have. This could explain a lot. Or thicken the plot even more.
Dr. J.E. Williams was such an amazing speaker. Very substantative and sound presentation. Yesterday, I listened to David Wolfe and was really uncomfortable with much of the self-serving nonsense he put forth. Listen closely, what he says does not sound truthful. He studied evolution at age 5–he says this often–such a grandiose exxageration. He is full of bull**** and seems to think good eating is for wealthy people. I am 39 years old and have eaten fast food and all sorts of junk food–I am healthy, no grey hair and have no bodyaches–does that mean I am aging well on my diet.
How on earth can these talks be called a debate. What we are creating on this page is more like a debate than anything. So far all ive heard is the speakers telling us mostly everything we already know about their ideas and views of what they believe is a healthy diet from reading their books and websites. This was an ideal opportunity to get the speakers together to answer each others questions and reasons why they disagree with each others findings and beliefs. While kevin monitors this message board and passes on some of our frequent questions for them to answer.
I feel kevin did not ask the right questions and nor did he ask enough of them but instead let them drivel on about stuff we mostly already know.
For example david wolfe kept saying we should eat lots of superfoods well an obvious question for him would be what would you say to people who think we should eat locally grown seasonal foods and dont think its right to buy foods grown thousands of miles away and in a totally different climate and cost thousands of pounds a year to buy let alone polluting air miles. And be at the mercy of airlines,visa, internet and my postman to feed me for life i dont think that sounds like the way we should be going do you.
Hey Tony, the event – in its entirety – does address many of the questions, they answers just come from different experts. If I were to ask the same specific type questions to all the experts, it would have gotten pretty old quick.
The question you pose here was addressed by Dr. Mercola and Dr. Cousens on the first night in detail
Thanks for listening!
Kev
Yes, it would have been more interesting for sure if these experts would have debated among each other.
But I think this is a very good start, we now know what they are all about. I really hope we could have a panel discussion between these people in the future.
I enjoyed every word that Dr. Williams said, so far he has made most sense of all these experts. I so agreed with everything he said
Even though I am vegan, I could actually consider adding some animal foods if I would get pregnant. High quality non-over fished fish now and then, and maybe some fish oil. And perhaps even goat dairy. This I would also implement into my childrens diet, but we would be mostly vegetarian.
Dr. Williams confirmed a lot of things that I have been thinking about these last few months.
Any fish fished commercially is overfished… It’s sad that anyone would go back from a vegan diet. ALthough I guess that’s what differentiates between an ethical vegan and one doing it for more selfish reasons like health.
Yes, that is true. It would be very sad, I’m not even sure I will get any kids.
My plan was to fish my own fish from a near lake. We have a lot of lakes in my country which are relatively clean and not overfished.
But animal production has unfortunately polluted a lot of waters, so it is hard to find clean waters.
Yeah, caring about one’s health or the health of one’s children is soooo selfish…
(wow.)
In response kevin what i meant was ask david himself the question i suggested. Thats what a real open debate would be like by getting the speakers to answer the questions themselves rather than just hearing Dr Mercolas opinion so it does not address the issue unless you hear it from the horses mouth.
You would not therefore be asking the same questions at all because they all have different beliefs although at same time alot of the stuff they agree on and us too ie junk food etc which is why in my opinion alot of time was wasted going over the basics instead of getting straight into the conflicting issues would been far more interesting and essential. We have a bbc program here in UK called question time which can be seen on bbc iplayer that is what i call a debate and what should of happened here in an online version of course.
Id be interested to hear if others agree or disagree on this and btw i used david and joe as purely examples above.
Enjoying all the speakers so far even though it can be a bit confusing when they’re all so passionate yet have different views and info to back them up…….ONE PROB: Can’t access the Feb 11 talk with Fred Patenaude n Mark Sisson, your page only lists up to night 5…..really keen to hear night 6! Sylvia K
I would like to know what Dr. Williams is setting the bar against? Vegans have slighter builds. Well, when we’re used to seeing obesity, that’s probably a GOOD thing.
His anecdotal evidence seems sketchy at best. Does he have any birth certificates to prove the life expectancy of the Inuit he lived with? He lived with them for 6 months and thinks he knows their whole history…Seems sketchy to me.
What sort of cofactors are missing from a vegans diet generationally? Couldn’t these things being absent in the urine mean that vegans are ASSIMILATING them better and RETAINING them better?
I would like to add…WOW! He claims animals WANT to sacrifice themselves? How delusional is Dr. Williams!? These are CURIOUS creatures and probably are coming to greet the people and see what they’re about. It’s like the natives on the East coast who would literally let the curious Manatee come up to their boats and then the natives would beat them to death with their paddles. Sounds so spiritual. Ritual killing followed by a prayer to alleviate guilt.
This is something that seems to happen in very rare circumstances.
Like I have read about tantra puja, were they will sacrifice a goat. And the goat walks willingly up to the pedestal to get killed.
It sounds quite unbelievable, I’m not sure what to believe myself.
But it is quite a good example of what is definitely NOT happening in any slaughter houses. Most animals are deficiently killed against their will and during huge stress.
Perhaps the animals who have been “cared for” by humans do not realise that their intent is to kill them. I mean when I meet another human I don’t instinctively assume their intent is to kill me…Although perhaps I should now.
I very much liked Dr. Goldhamer. Sounds a lot like Dr. Fuhrman and made the differentiation between a “nutritarian” and a vegan, which is probably a good distinction for a health debate.
I will definitely be looking into his cookbook.
I liked the story about the buddhist monks eating fish