Thanks so much for listening to David Wolfe and Daniel Vitalis!
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Live Awesome!
Kev
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Hey Kevin, thanks for making the adjustments with the program… Player 1 is working great tonight!
I’m so excited to hear David Wolfe. Love his delivery and quality of information!
You’ll get no argument from me! David Wolfe is really quite something!
Do you think bacteria are sentient? Let me at least say that Donna Gates said that they are intelligent organisms.
Are you thus killing the phytoplankton?
Eric – you raise a good point about the intelligence of non animal organisms.
personally, I have known some rocks with more intelligence than some people.
seriously, I tend to think that ALL living things, animate or not, have some type of intelligence. would refer you to the book “the secret life of plants” by thompkins and byrd which looks at how plants respond to thoughts or intentions. also the Anastasia books. so if we accept the premise that all our food possesses a type of intelligence, how does that affect the argument against meat eating? personally, i think if we just acknowledge and express gratitude for whatever is giving up its life for us, we are on the right track of staying connected to all life.
and for David Wolfe: the DU toxicity affects the LIVER and pancreas. There have been several studies done by the Japanese on this.
The premise that keeps recurring is that killing a sentient being is wrong. This is especially supported by the idea that “animals” have feelings. Both these ideas default to the idea that plants are not sentient and don’t have feelings and thus it is acceptable to exploit and kill them for food. It is in the definition of sentience that there is a feeling and consciousness. So if plants are sentient, they have the feeling component and it would be the same killing as animals. That is my point about the exclusive view of animals/meat eatingI am aware of the references you cite and would like to mention Cleve Backter’s work and Paul Stamets on fungal intelligence. I think that there is no “type of intelligence” needed for sentience.
Finally, I do not think there are different types of intelligence among living beings. I’ll stop for now, but there really is more.
“personally, i think if we just acknowledge and express gratitude for whatever is giving up its life for us, we are on the right track of staying connected to all life.”
You do realize that is the same argument many murderers use and they feel very strongly they are right? Justification for crossing others boundaries or dictating to others whether they should live or die is a heavy decision not as easily made as you portray. I would only take a life if I felt it was to give benefit to the one suffering.
Bacteria can morph into differnt bacteria, fungi, etc…research pleomorphic. They express an intelligence we still do not understand.
I have wondered if plants suffer when they are harvested and eaten. Maybe plants are sentient
I stated my opinion about that on Night 2 and got the dogmatic answer from Administrator Gianni as thus:
Kevin says:
February 8, 2011 at 5:00 am
Plants don’t have minds, so they don’t feel pain. They are not sentient, but animals are. Animals have the same feelings as us, so it’s wrong to exploit them, even if we could achieve better health from that (which we can’t).
I will not respond with the evidence as the response was too close-minded and my initial post asked for discussion. There is much to say.
maybe “administrator Gianni” needs to look a little deeper at the different levels of what constitutes a sentinent being…;)
Eric, I haven’t posted anything on these forums besides help with video players. I would never write that to you.
Please be sure of your accusations before you make them.
Kev
maybe there is another kevin out there?
I must very sincerely apologize for any accusations that I made that are false. There is no intent to do such.
Here is the link for the posts in question. It does not say admin. now, somehow I thought it was there before.
http://www.renegadehealth.com/ghd/blog/night-3-jonny-bowden-and-dr-joel-fuhrman/#comment-744
Eric, to be fair, the Kevin you quoted wasn’t Gianni, he posts as ‘admin says’ and did so that evening on another issue. Peace.
I made a big mistake and I accept responsibility for that. I am genuinely sorry. My reasoning came back to me and it was a mistake I made due to the Chris S. 10:50 A.M. posting that started with:
“Oh didnt see ur comment here Kev before posting…”
I thought it was the Kev I mistakenly accused. It was my fault and I don’t know how to make up for it other than to apologize and ask for forgiveness when it is due. Your writing Peace is truly moving and beautiful.
Eric! No problem, my friend! You are completely forgiven and are welcome to continue your comments here… they’re much appreciated!
As for your initial post, The Secret Life of Plants surely makes you wonder…
Kev
oops, that’s not Kevin Gianni but me, I’ll use Kevin C to distinguish myself from now on. Plants are ‘alive’ in the sense of possessing inner winds that enable them to move and grow, take up nutrients and water but they do not have minds. The definition of sentience is having a mind; being conscious, being able to think and feel, none of which applies to plants.
Hi there, I wrote about this before in reply to this idea that plants don’t have minds etc – read “Plant Spirit Medicine” by Eliot Cowan…I can assure you that plants do have minds and are very much “sentient”, I know this from personal experience….xxx
I’m sorry you didn’t like my answer. I don’t want to come over as dogmatic, but this is something I feel sure about based on the teachings of Buddha, but everyone has a choice what they believe. If you want to believe that plants are sentient, that’s your choice. Peace.
If plants are sentient, that is all the more reason to eat only plants. It takes much more than 500 calories of vegetables to produce 500 calories of meat.
A cow may have to eat a lot a grass to grow, but they don’t kill the grass, they only clip it and if the grass isn’t grazed it gets overgrown with other plants.
Yes they can. They can turn a nice healthy pasture into a very large mud pit and destroy the soil so much so that weeds can take avery long to to regrow.
Exactly! Animal agriculture is responsible for mass desertization.
Right, sure, if the cows AREN’T on a rotational system. If they’re on a rotational system on perennial polycultures? The “very large mud pit” won’t happen.
Hi David -
Blood is on your hands with dairy because cows are consistently producing too many calves for their milk and they (most) are slaughtered as veal. Same for sheep, goats .
Also please explain how the cow’s colostrum is healthy when it’s created for cow’s and their digestion and body and why not use human colostrum. The other issue is when we use baby’s first most important source of food and immunity we take it away from the newborn calves (snce we don’t take human colostrum past newborn stage.
Come to CT again please
Couldn’t agree with you more. If humans using meat/parts of animal it suffered. Eggs, dairy, antlers, ants etc. I don’t understand how someone can call themselves vegan and do this. What a hypocrite. I used to really love David until I found out he did this. Saying there is no moral – immoral is just a way to skirt by and attempt to get away with supporting the suffering of animals. Not cool David.
Daniel Vitalis is just as bad. It’s vile.
It is interesting that each of you sit here typing your words, your judgments, oblivious to the reality in which you are being supported. Any mammalian being, in nature, would gladly consume milk of another species if it was available and offered to them. They do not have the physical capacity and intelligence to secure milk from other mammals. Humans do. Primates living upon fruit and vegetation are still living upon fruit and vegetation. We are not. Ruminants consuming vegetation do so all day, every day of their lives. We do not. We are efficient. We have brain and gray matter in volumes.
Dolphins are efficient. They are carnivores.
Such morbidity, this attempt to avoid death at all costs. Inability to comprehend that everything is consuming everything else. You sit here now transcended into perceptual life via the endless stream of prior ancestors who consumed animal foods. You carry that lineage. You speak of blood upon hands, yet you do not see the wisdom inherent within indigenous and traditional peoples. All is sacrifice my friends.
The evolution of humanity is at stake. You simply cannot make accurate judgments based upon your personalized, conceptual and ultimately temporary worldviews.
Show me a three generation group / society of vegan humans upon this planet. Show me one account of a people living in sound health and subsisting w/o animal foods for three generations. Until you can provide such verification, it is dishonorable to others and yourself by passing such judgment. You should come to recognize your status. You sit here now due to the choices of your biological ancestral lineage. That deserves immense gratitude. The human realm is a precious situation.
Healthiest Regards,
~William
Well Said!
Simply because we have done something for a few generations does not make it okay. And there are groups of people who have eaten pretty much an exclusively vegan diet for generations.
Hello Chris,
I do not understand your comment in response to what I typed. What have ‘we’ done for a few generations?
The anthropological and observable data reveals that humans have integrated animal foods into their natural diet for as long as human evolution has been traceable. In fact, on all accounts, it is quite clear that indigenous peoples would go to great lengths to secure animal food into their dietary fare in order to secure physical prowess and mental acuity for subsequent generations.
You stated:
“… there are groups of people who have eaten ‘pretty much’ an exclusively vegan diet for generations.”
I await your data to reveal such groups. After many years of rigorous and careful study, I haven’t been able to make one single discovery to support that ‘belief’. If instead, I’d opted to place faith into third-party interpretative analysis (most commonly rooted in a specific ‘agendas’) in lieu of the ‘actual data’ available, I may have certainly fallen for such short-sighted conclusions.
Fortunately, I have been wise enough to gather as much data as possible within the fields of anthropology / morphology. Couple this with a wide lens of data from historians and researchers involved with careful analysis of indigenous / aboriginal roots for all ethnic peoples of the world.
The internet and universities worldwide are full of information for aboriginal and indigenous people of the world. There are many sites specifically dedicated to collective data for aboriginal populations of the world. It is wise for us to make careful use of this information.
I will state further that even J.E. Williams was off the mark in his distillation of the Qeros people. He discussed the differences and commonalities between these Peruvian indigenous people and native Inuit, stating clearly that the Qeros ate close to 100% starch. This isn’t true. Alpaca have been a mainstay of these peoples dietary lifestyle throughout their entire evolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQreGJO8-lo
“immoral” are the fools who presume to define morality for others
Just want to say that David always talks about pure veganism being a myth and wants others to know that very much.
I’m a little more concerned with animals than my own karma but I can’t say that for certain as I do not know him personally. I do believe that we eat cannot eat vegetables without eating bugs as I have said in an earlier post, we cannot even walk on the ground without killing bugs we have to accept that we are not truly vegan.
He does not promote eggs as far as I know he’s against all the bacteria. The antlers are harvested from animals that are never used for slaughter.
I don’t know about the colostrum and have the same concerns for that as you do and after hearing Daniel speak I seriously have my doubts about it’s source especially since he has not addressed the living conditions the cows have anywhere that I can find.
love the inspiration and excitement that is bursting forth with all the information in tonight’s program – simply great, thank you for this gift to all of us
Does a zooplankton have a karmic debt after killing by eating a phytoplankton? (I will add my opinion that the plankton types distinction is not true.)
David Wolfe is talking about how he doesn’t eat many calories but still weighs a healthy weight, for someone who is underweight and needs to gain weight would the idea of more calories be optimal or just the high nutrient foods even if the high calories aren’t there work? I eat a high raw vegan diet I just don’t eat all of these superfoods David talks about.
Would love to hear more about how to make your gut “optimal” …
donna gates has some info
Just because you don’t kill something you are still supporting the cruelty involved in getting that milk, egss, and colostrum. Cows are enslaved and artifically inseminated, calves are separated from the mothers, the males are often used as veal, and you are taking the colostrum and milk away from the calf. So just because you don’t kill doesn’t mean that there is not cruelty involved. Still love ya bro just wish you didn’t hate on vegans and didn’t support any animal products like deer antler and colostrum.
What if someone raised a few chickens in their own backyard or owned a few cows and let them reproduce naturally? Yes, you are still knowingly choosing to eventually kill and eat them…but you wouldn’t be enslaving your cows and artificially inseminating them or separated calves from their mothers or anything like that.
I’m a supporter of veganism, but I think it weakens your argument when you compare veganism to the standard american diet only and assume that all dairy drinkers or egg eaters or even meat eaters support factory farming.
That is such a small percentage of people who do that, so I am making a general statement to the 99% of people who don’t have access or who are not willing to get eggs or chickens from a local humanely raised chickens. I see what you are saying, but it’s kind of a red herring since it’s so rare and almost not worth talking about. I support people like Gabriel Cousens and Jameth Sheridan who have proved that you can be vegan long term and be healthy. I really don’t like the direction David has gone over the years with his inclusion and/or support of certain animal products like deer antler, colostrum, ant extract, deer placenta etc. I really like his cutting edge information, and agree with the vast majority of what he talks about. It’s just how he has started including animal products and saying that it’s “ok” cause it didn’t involve killing. C’mon, there is cruelty and inhumane treatment of animals that aren’t killed; even though they eventually are.
Question for David Wolfe. What do you believe would be the state of your health, if you were a raw foodist from birth? Do you believe the protein/building you got from meat-eating in your youth, has helped to sustain you in your present state? Do you know of any children who’ve been raised on raw food? If so, what were the results?
I greatly respect David – I’m a fan, but it disturbs me that he sells colostrum, deer placenta and ants! How does that go with his idea of karma from exploiting animals? I think David has integrity, but I don’t understand why longevitywarehouse sells this stuff.
re: passionflower – the flower or the fruit?
Cannot wait to listen to this one
Seems to me David is trying to make some $$$ by selling colostrum, deer placenta and ants , guess there’s no money in selling fruit and veggies these days .
Shame Shame Shame
Ethical choices are more important than health because otherwise we are selfishly exploiting other living beings for our own happiness. You have to decide what is more important to you.
It was great to hear his background – i think the best teachers have walked the talk. I’m off to Byron Bay to see him live!
Whenever, I move to a more vegan diet (right now I only eat fish and yogurt) I start to crave fats. David’s comments on getting the ratio right are very important.
Dr J.E. Williams says that the longest living tribes do not eat dairy products – this contradicts what Daniel is saying.
it will be really interesting (!!!) to see how (if) Daniel addresses the karma / sentinent being / violence against animals questions…
See, David doesn’t seem to understand what the word ‘vegan’ means. Just because you use an animal product and you don’t kill it/harm it does not mean you use it. Veganism means not using animal products PERIOD, suffering or not. It’s about leaving the antlers ON the deer, leaving the pearls IN the oyster, leaving the colostrum IN the cow so the baby can have it. Get it David? Just because an animal wasn’t killed doesn’t mean there was no suffering. Especially dairy, eggs, honey etc. Don’t use your ‘there is no moral/immoral’ bullcrap don’t use that as an excuse to support animal suffering. That’s exactly what you’re doing.
If you listen he didnt say that it was vegan, he just said he doesnt want to be part of killing
Daniel Vitalis clearly describes how it is impossible to eat any kind of food without using animal produce to some degree…
Love the intro by Daniel…peaceful
VRy fascinating to understand it
Great Debate thanks so much! http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhjow/b241/biochemical.html is a good primer biochemical genetics and why we have a need for different diets or respond differently to the same diet – ‘enzyme polymorphism’. We are not a geneticalkly uniform species like a strain of lab mice. Your enzymes while present may function better or worse than another individuals or be entirely missing! This is the reason behind people processing / being able to ustilise nutrients differently. I suppose the day will come when we will have lots of easy tests for this but for now it seems to be blood type and suck it and see! I think I would be fail on vegan too.
what does he mean by “viable” foods? where on the continuum does it divide?
David was amazing. He’s so knowledgable. I need to learn more about wild herbs. One of my favorites.
in India, the protein source comes more from bean and grain combinations that in the use of dairy. Dairy would be second or third on the list of protein sources.
Daniel.
Did you get blood work or saliva and urine tests to see if you could find out your deficiencies which you might have been able to correct without meat?
Daniel. I am vegan for ethical reasons, NOT health. Spiritual not religious. Non-violence.
I have a friend who said to me 17 years ago, we shouldn’t eat plants or animals, just pure energy. And I agree with that statement wholly. We just are not evolved enough to do this.
That’s your choice. A lot of people eat for health reasons.
I am so excited about this. Vitalis is my god.
From the person who believes there is no link between cholesterol and heart disease?
there’s more insecticides and pesticides now that ruin our skeletal and other systems.
industrial & technologial revolutions slowly made us lazy and not to think anymore, we’re indoors top much. We are bombarded by microwaves etc, For some maybe they couldn’t handle veganism, but I don’t see your proof for all of the shrinkage of the brains and boe issues.
Nicely said. He been on it for years.
I respect Davids wisdom and what he tries to share with people. His work is getting deeper and deeper, and now he’s into Steiner’s stuff!
I also agree with concerns of others about what can sound like a casual use of colostrum, milk, deer antler etc.. He may not be explaining that particular piece, tho I’m ‘extrapolating’ (from the awareness he does present on other levels) that he IS aware of these issues.
Yes, there are consequences to all of our actions. prayer, gratitude, intention, reverence… help the karmic load. BC the system is so screwed up, we each need to research any consequences of our food choices.
Some have mentioned ‘shame on David’. Remember casting shame is the lowest form of energy – pretty huge karmic implications.
Basically, we’re all in this together.. every sentient being.
“You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better,
you did better.” Maya Angelou
Kim, drinking a cup of nettles & peppermint and eating delicious chocolate covered coconut… Enjoy life
whoa! did he say that growing PLANT foods are what has caused the deforestation? ummm… its really about cutting the trees for those cows of his to graze.
i agree about the overpopoulation ideas.
I believe you will find more about where Daniel is coming from on this issue if you read Lierre Keith’s book The Vegetarian Myth. She talks at great length about how modern agriculture is wrecking the earth. I’m not saying he/she are right or wrong as I am new to the idea. But I think that is where he is coming from…
Having a cow would require more space. A home garden would take up much less. So comparing apples to oranges.
Daniel knocked it out of the park! I really appreciated his research, explanations and style. My research and intuition has lead me to the same conclusions. Bravo!
re Daniel Vitalis — one of the best perspectives I’ve heard so far — Thanks
Wed.Feb 9
Hi Kev ,
I find the series interesting, though the talks are rather too long and rambling.
I was unable to activate the First one in the series.
The second day I didn’t try. Today I got David Wolfe but the talk
stopped near the end and never got to Daniel Vitalis.
The “winding” symbol went on forever.
Frustrated Computer Unsavvy Senior.
Really enjoyed David Wolfe and all his info on super foods.
Vitalis says that we need animal manure to grow our plants, but Dr.Cousens already addressed this point by describing how he uses a ‘veganic’ system of plant based manures. It can be done.
If the cows are not grazing the grass then we can use this as mulch.
I found the info interesting though and I will look into it.
So, you don’t want to kill cows, but you don’t want to give them a place to live either?
What would be wrong with collecting manure from wild grazers and use it in a garden to grow plant foods for vegan consumption?
It’s perfectly natural for plants to eat the manure from animals. That’s one of the natural cycles that cannot be improved on.
A great show Kevin! I think that David Wolfe is so inspiring! I am sorry to hear that he sells animal products on his site. I am glad to know that he is vegan for ethical reasons which is the main thing for me. His best point I think and one that i am realizing more and more is how different each one of our nutritional needs are. And he gave me new info there about the fats, proteins and carbs.
About Daniel…I want to say that if you want to see and/or hear him wax amazing then listen to his expose on water at the last Longevity Now conference.
However, I must agree with Arbeth that he seems filled with guilt about the meat eating which then seems to fuel him to explain things in half truths, false assumptions and some out and out lies when it comes to ancestors and just about anything he wanted to make a point about. He certainly must not have studied the Hopis or the many indigenous shamans who KNOW that before the 2nd world humans did not eat animals. Their need to eat animals came after the first ice age and it was the animals who offered themselves so that the humans might live. In a way their whole lives were lived in gratitude and ceremony to these generous beings.
I do believe that plants are sentient. I talk to mine….I just had a cactus die and she was so beautiful and would always want me to look at her. I always thank them and bless them before I eat them and then I fill them with etheric and earthly anesthesia and bliss (they seem to like this best). They showed me that the blender is rough and a big shock for them so I make sure to fill them with alot of bliss before blending.
I am not judging Daniel for his food choices, I just wish that he wouldn’t make stuff up to defend them……..Blesssings
Vitalis wild meat idea is so incredibly unrealistic in civilized world,I’s simply impossible.OK so we have to eat algae for 200000 years to be sure it’s good for us,his way of thinking is very narrow.
What I heard from Daniel was not a call to wait 200,000 years to make sure a diet is ok, but rather a caution that we don’t even have the experience of two or three generations of strict vegans to see how this thing goes. I find that to be a very reasonable caution.
I think David Wolfe is a very dynamic and interesting person, but I just have a hard time imagining that I could subsist off of so many superfoods with the knowledge that many of them could not be sustainably produced in large amounts. I’d rather focus on creating a food system that can provide us with good health while also maximizing sustainability. I agree with Daniel that it might be too late and that the population might have to decrease soon…but I still don’t think that is an excuse to be shipping dried powders from all over the world constantly. Learning about a few local herbs that you could go forage would be a different story, of course.
I know that there are options for creating vegan food systems and polycultures, but I’m still open minded about the inclusion of some animal products in a sustainable food system (I can’t say what percentage, but perhaps at least a small bit). I don’t think I’ll ever begin eating large amounts of meat in my diet because like Daniel admits, that is definitely not sustainable. However, I respect the fact that he is acknowledging this and that he still eats this way in order to ensure the survival of HIS lineage. I’d like to think that there is a balance…we’ll see! But anyways, the point of this was actually to say that I have an insane amount of respect for DV, especially since he has started such honest discussions about diet and our future. I agree with most of what he says, and I applaud his courage to be so honest in the face of such harsh criticism from some of his former vegan supporters.
Furthermore, I like the idea of basing the argument for veganism solely on ethics/spirituality/etc. I first heard this idea from the Vegan RD. I don’t agree with her dietary recommendations within veganism, but I do think that trying to prove that vegan diets are ALWAYS healthier or to make too many sweeping claims about vegan health is damaging to the vegan argument. I think there can be healthy vegans and healthy meat eaters. It is the type and quality of each food group that you are eating that often matters more than your inclusion or exclusion of animal products.
That being said, there are many noble ethical viewpoints that I think could guide certain individuals towards a vegan diet if employed gently, and perhaps we should be focusing on those.
We live the same length without the same risk of degenerative disease. Please see Dr. Greger’s “Optimum Vegetarian Health”.
okay, this is really my last comment….these talks have been amazing. I have been truly inspired.
Kevin and Annmarie….thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
loving the talks! i agree w daniel(not that anyone cares about my personal opinion!lol) on most points—however, i want to just point out that we have NOT lost the ability to birth through our vaginas–our pelvises are not too small. i understand his line of discussion but this particular “fact” is just not so. we do not grow babies too big to birth and the issues around how babies are birthed(ie. c-sections) is really an issue of the doctors and hospitals, not the women’s bodies. (though all women and babies need better nutrition!)
i would personally like to hear more about pregnancy and babies and children—there hasn’t been too much talk about these things. (i was vegetarian for over 17 years, through 2 pregnancies and almost 5 years of lactation–and a healthy vegetarian with very few processed foods and careful attention to nutritional supplements, yet my health kept declining. during the nursing years of my 2nd child i began following weston a price and was much less depleted during my 3rd pregnancy and my current exclusive breastfeeding of her) i would like to hear more info about the toll of pregnancies on a woman’s body and years of breastfeeding, along with growing/developing fetus and the babies and children. (example–omega 3′s and children–children cannot make the conversions from precursors in plant sources—things like this) i want to be as healthy as i can be, as we all do, but we really need to focus on growing the next generation to be healthier
thanks kevin for this event
I just have to say that I am one of those people who could not give birth naturally because the opening in my pelvis was to small for my son to pass through. When he was delivered by c-section we could see a ring dent in the soft bones of his head showing where he had been stuck. (After a couple of days the ring went away.)My niece also had the same problem and ended up with a c-section. I don’t know if this has anything to do with my evolution but I have heard of this happening quite often since it happened to me. It does happen.
i don’t know your specific story nor your nieces, but i can tell you that as both a childbirth educator and doula, true CPD (cephalopelvic disproportion) is extremely rare. if a girl suffers from ricketts and develops a misshapen pelvis(not often seen in this country, even given our poor nutrition!) or a woman who suffers a major trauma like a crushed pelvis in an auto accident–then u may see a case of CPD. And the only way to accurately diagnose CPD is to allow the woman to enter the 2nd stage of labor(pushing stage) and remain there for an extended period of time(which would be 6 plus hours–and hospitals/OBs are very unlikely to allow this!) i will speculate that in your case your baby may have been in a very poor alignment which caused the spot u mentioned. (poor alignment is not the same as CPD and happens frequently–usually due to lifestyle things such as sitting in recliners
–but again, if allowed to labor naturally(ie w/o drugs and freedom of movement) and allowed to push as long as is necessary than even a poorly aligned baby can birthed–and often those babies will eventually move into a better alignment!) And lastly, u will def hear that this is happening to many women because this is what their OBs are telling them–but it simply isn’t true.
glad that regardless of the birth u had u ended up with a healthy baby
cheers
Having been a vegan and vegetarian for the past 17 years, it amazes me that the proponents of eating animal foods made the most sense and had the most compelling arguments.
Didn’t they?!
How so? He seems to be talking a lot of nonsense. Simply because people did/do something doesn’t make it ideal. Should we go back to raping and pillaging again?
Man, I love hearing Daniel Vitalis speak.
It seems like, on the pro meat side of things, all the speakers are looking into our past as evidence of what we should be eating today. There is no arguing that we grew up and survived harsh climates by eating animals, but that doesn’t really say anything about what we need now in today’s world to get healthy.
The vegan guests so far have been talking about the results they are getting with actual clients, healing all types of diseases which is what most of the people on this planet need.
Maybe the lineup of guests is unfairly biased towards vegan doctors as opposed to just nutritionists and researchers for the animal side.
I’d like to hear more about the healing aspects of animal products. I’m open to anything to improve my health.
This has been a fascinating event so far!! I’m really enjoying each night and looking forward to the next!
If you go to Marksdailyapple site and read the testimonials you will also see many people healing disease with the Paleo/Primal diet that I assume is similar to what Daniel was talking about. Mark Sisson wrote Primal Blueprint.
I think that the argument based on our ancestors being hunter-gatherers is fine as that is what evidence shows, however to assume it was perfect or even optimal for health is a bit ‘religious’ of Daniel in my opinion ;>) Archaeology confirms that ancient people suffered from diseases too(skeletons with arthritic distortions etc.)
They also found they ate predominantly vegetables…
Wow. I was really blown away by Daniel’s talk, as it provoked many ideas I hadn’t really thought about before. I’m really grateful Kevin that you’re interviewing so many diverse people with varying viewpoints. I know that some of us (maybe I should speak for myself!) are just trying to “claw” our way back to good health and appreciate the opportunity to find out what’s “right” for us. I’ve tried following other’s paths, and realize one size does not fit all, at least not for me. Thank you so much!
I’m sad to read that even one person is thinking of eating animal products after listening to Vitalis. Does anyone think for themselves anymore? I’d call you sheep but I don’t want to insult them.
Why are you sad Heather? You should be rejoicing. You sit here now due to an endless stream of prior ancestors who certainly did consume animal foods. If you have access to a culture or society subsisting beyond 2-3 generations w/o animal foods I am curious to know your sources. Thanks for being here.
Healthiest Regards,
~ William
I’m here due to have Nazi relatives…Should I be thankful for that too?
Hello Chris,
If such humans were in fact your relatives and they chose that philosophy as guidance for living, and you disagree with it, then perhaps it would be wise to simply know that they made incorrect choices based upon their cumulative knowledge / wisdom. These choices obviously seem to be in conflict with your current personal perception of living in the world / society.
Had they been offered different experiences to develop an empowered perception of their worldwide community, alongside being granted an interrelated view of life, they may have made different choices indeed. However, based upon the choices which were made, they did have an opportunity to birth offspring from which you’ve suggested that you descended (or ascended depending upon your p.o.v.). In this instance you should be grateful for that choice, for it has offered you a human organism. That is a fine and beautiful instrument of perception.
Healthiest Regards,
~William
how is that different from someone who decided to stop animal products after listening to one of the other speakers? I’m sure that happened too.
The fact that it results in less harm.
I’m interested in what David said about eating less for longevity. I’m vegan (raw, some cooked, a lot of superfoods) and have been skinny all my life. I eat huge amounts of food, but cannot gain weight. I want to know how to eat less without losing weight or without being hungry. If one has a high metabolism, are they doomed to eating too much and dying young?
Don’t you need to eat more of the vegan fats?? Sorry I don’t have this problem so I’m not sure. Are you taking the superfoods?
Dear Sharon,
I was alway underweight and skinny.
It turned out I was eating things that irritated my bowel, so I didn’t absorb all the nutrients.
I now am on a seed free diet, but the most important part is that I don’t eat gluten containing grains and no legumes and peanuts.
I do eat high calorie, high fat, 1 gram protein per pound bodyweight.
I started resistance training to gain some muscle and to my surprise I now have some fat on my butt, which makes sitting a lot more comfortable.
Women don’t need to be scared of gaining to much muscle from resistance training. Just look how thin olympic weightlifting women are.
Only bodybuilding women who use hormones get that awful big manly muscles and they have to follow a special diet to lose almost all of their body fat for the shows they do.
I also suspect that eating to much carbohydrates is the real reason for shortened lifespan and not calories in general.
Try finding information on the benefits of eating less carbohydrates on health, inflammation, insulin resistance and immune function.
Fat is a much cleaner fuel for the body than carbohydrates.
Thanks for pointing that out……..I agree.
I was so relieved to hear Daniel Vitalis speak. He was awesome. When I started trying to figure out how I wanted to eat after years of listening to the media and the government……I thought “well what did we eat before everyone got sick and fat?” That is the bottom line to me. I had not heard of Daniel in all my reading so I am glad to find out about him.
I like David Wolfe’s super foods but I am always a little turned off to him since his DVD’s are expensive. I sometimes thing he sees $$$ signs. I just don’t think his ideas are doable in the general population. People have trouble giving up sugar and junk food…..I don’t think people are going to go vegan or raw. I like his personality and enthusiasm though.
Noehere to find long-time vegan people? How about this article at http://www.thehindubusinessline.com
or
http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/life/2005/01/07/stories/2005010700080200.htm
I did not research further about them but I`d like to know more.
Hi Leila,
There appears to be a common thread in the vegan community to haphazardly circulate misinformation as fact.
Here is your Brok-pa Aryans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R03VAObeac
And see the thread here:
http://paleohacks.com/questions/3556/a-vegan-hunter-gatherer-tribe
The article you posted is tainted with rigid beliefs. This individual was not interested in seeking verifiable facts. They are simply promoting their agenda in the world. It manifests quite clearly in their reporting.
Healthiest Regards,
~William
Daniel is totally out of step with modern science which clearly has identified meat as a major factor in heart disease( 50% ), cancer( 30% ), diabetes, etc etc
Science is a dynamic flow of new discoveries and needs updating.
In my POV, yours may be different, the work done by Price was not good science at all; here’s an extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation
“John Robbins has written a critique in which he reviews the history of the Weston Price Foundation and provides evidence that Weston Price had recommended a vegetarian and dairy diet to his own family members as the healthiest diet (contrary to the position of the Price Foundation which recommends animal products).[21]
“The anti-vegetarian and anti-soy views of the foundation have also been criticized in several publications.[22][23][24] Joel Fuhrman MD wrote a series of articles entitled “The truth about the Weston Price Foundation” in which he argues the Foundation is a purveyor of “nutritional myths”, largely because they have failed to update their recommendations in light of contradictory evidence.[25]
“Price’s focal infection theory is no longer considered viable in the medical community.[26] An editorial by William Jarvis in Nutrition Today called Price’s work “well-intentioned but misguided,” noting that he did no quantitative assesment whatsoever. Jarvis gave as an example: “On separate occasions when examining persons who were on mixed diets – i.e., partially primitive and partially civilized – he rationalized that the one whose dental decay was minimal was due to the primitive portion of the diet, while the other whose dental decay was greater, was so because of the civilized portion. Neither diet was quantified in any way to permit comparative analysis.”[27]
The Quackwatch website wrote a critique of Weston A. Price, saying his studies were “poorly designed” and that the Weston A. Price Foundation promotes “questionable dietary strategies.”[28]”
In my POV, the views of the Weston Price Foundation are not good science… actually not science at all… but a misguided philosopy.
God Bless everyone with common sense clear thinking to see the falsity of WPF,
Anatol, PhD in physics
Do you have links available for John Robbins and Joel Fuhrman’s rebuttle on the Weston Price Foundation. I would really like to take a look at those. I’ve been vegan for a while and hear this brought up that the Weston Price diet is a healthy meat-based diet, but don’t know how to provide a rebuttle. Any help would be appreciated.
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/11/reflections-on-the-weston-a-price-foundation.html
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-fanciful-folklore-is-no-match-for-modern-science.html
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-deadly-dietary-myths.html
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/debunking-diet-myths-weston-a-price-foundation-stupid-traditions.html
Meat eating studies have been done with conventional factory farmed meats which is not what the primitive cultures ate that Price studied. Factory farmed meat do add to people getting diseases.
It doesn’t sound like you know much about Weston Prices research. He actually sent food samples back to be tested in laboratories to see what the native people were eating and why they were so healthy.
I have also heard that quackwatch was set up by the government to discredit people that they don’t like. The government doesn’t want us to eat healthy. They have the interests of Monsanto, big industry food producers and the drug companies in mind.
Except for the fact that Inuit live many less years…
I’m sorry, nowhere can you find studies where meat eating is linked to any of the diseases you mentioned in any meaningful way. YES, there are epidemiological studies linking meat consumption to diseases of the western civilization but they never take account for example the quality of meat (processed vs. unprocessed, organic vs. factory farm). Also, in population studies the factor which really screws the result is that all the the other lifestyle factors associated with meat eating (smoking, alcohol consumption, low level of physical activity, which are all correlated) are the ones that actually harm you.
Added to this is the fact native cultures (inuit, masai, etc. , there is documented stuff about them, check them out!) have always eaten meat if available, and diabetes, cancer, etc. are always absent in these cultures.
The question is complicated, of course, but really there’s no reason to bash meat for health reasons. Many people do much better with it, so you shouldn’t limit it’s usage if your body and your set of morals tells you so..
Hey Anatol,
Whilst i dont have the time to get into a discussion this, i can tell you there are many, many studies that refute the idea that meat and saturated fat is linked to heart disease.
Firstly there is the issue of the quality of the meat eaten. Dr. Bowden talked about a Harvard study that indicates it is the quality of the meat, whether the meat is processed or not, which is the determining factor as to whether or not someone is likely to develop heart disease and diabetes. This study showed that people eating processed animal produce saw a 42% increase in heart disease and a 19% increase in developing diabetes. Eating unprocessed meat was not associated with either condition:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2010-releases/processed-meats-unprocessed-heart-disease-diabetes.html
There are many other sources that indicate that saturated fat is not linked to heart disease. Here are a couple of books that clearly state the case:
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Cholesterol-Anthony-Colpo/dp/1430309334
http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Cholesterol-are-Good-You/dp/919755538X/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Cheers,
James
Hey Anatol,
Whilst i dont have the time to get into a discussion this, i can tell you there are many, many studies that refute the idea that meat and saturated fat is linked to heart disease.
Firstly there is the issue of the quality of the meat eaten. Dr. Bowden talked about a Harvard study that indicates it is the quality of the meat, whether the meat is processed or not, which is the determining factor as to whether or not someone is likely to develop heart disease and diabetes. This study showed that people eating processed animal produce saw a 42% increase in heart disease and a 19% increase in developing diabetes. Eating unprocessed meat was not associated with either condition:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2010-releases/processed-meats-unprocessed-heart-disease-diabetes.html
There are many other sources that indicate that saturated fat is not linked to heart disease. Here are a couple of books that clearly state the case:
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Cholesterol-Anthony-Colpo/dp/1430309334
http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Cholesterol-are-Good-You/dp/919755538X/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Cheers,
James
DV states that population control will be needed because of food limitations. I say that technology will solve the food problem. One possibility will be cultivating crops on the Moon.
I’m really surprised there’s almost no one talking about GMOs. Vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore, it’s a food issue that affects us all.
“Daniel is totally out of step with modern science which clearly has identified meat as a major factor in heart disease( 50% ), cancer( 30% ), diabetes, etc etc”
Not so. If you’re going to say something is a major factor for instance in the case of diabetes at least bring up sugar.
“major factor” does not mean “the only factor”
more accurate would have been to say “one of the major factors”
OK, i should have also mentioned all the processed foods also which include sugars, flour( just as bad as sugar), extracted oils, over-processed grains, dairy, unnecessary additives, etc
Anything that leads to overweight & obesity also contributes to the major diseases.
you may want to see new documentary that is coming out in April
http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com which is entertaining, humorous, sad, informative, and in the end very very inspiring
amazing health transformation from nearly dead to vigorous health
another quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price
“… a review in the Journal of the American Medical Association also disagreed with the significance of this nutritional research, noting Price was “observant but not wholly unbiased” and that his approach was “evangelistic rather than scientific.”[16]”
Kevin, correct me if i’m wrong, but it seems to me that too many of the speakers you selected[ sorry no time to listen to all of them ] who are for eating animals subscribe to the pseudo-science of the WPF and not to real credible modern science. Seems like a waste of time to listen to them, is my POV. And who funds the WPF ?
Hello Anatol,
Your passionate posts are appreciated, and yet they really haven’t delivered. Nothing substantial seems to have been revealed. It seems that a great deal of opinion has been honored as fact.
Quackwatch was quoted, as if it were a leader in the field of critical, unbiased reviews. The other personal gurus mentioned, with their personal agendas promote their personalized worn-out opinions over and over again. They do not appear interested in looking at or considering research to the contrary. It does seem that cherry-picking comes easy to those with agendas.
Once we move outside of the community of vegan-agendas, one discover a wealth of scientific research validating the importance / compatibility of animal foods in the human biological & anthropological diet.
The marked difference noticed between genuine researchers and those promoting agendas is that researchers consider “all” of the available information without drawing flippant conclusions to support moralistic or ethical standards of belief. They do not run when faced with evidence to the contrary. They consider it from as many perspectives as possible. Weighing in substantial observations from multiple fields of research is an important part of this process.
Anatol, where is the empirical or even anecdotal evidence to reveal one case of a vegan group or society living beyond two or three generations in sound health? This is an important question. Thanks for being here.
Healthiest Regards,
William
I’ve read that the typical grocery store meat that has been raised on corn consist of omega 6 fats and are devoid of the healthy omega 3 fats. However, grass fed cattle are mostly omega 3 fats. This agrees with Dr. Bowden’s view.
Does anyone know how much omega 3 supplementation of fish oil or flax oil can be safely taken daily? I’ve heard 1-2T daily for each of these, but after 3 months of this, I’m not seeing any reduction of inflammation.
Check out Udo Erasmus’ book, Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill. Also check out his websitehttp://udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/summary_oils.htm Some great articles. You can definetly over-do flax oil. Udo has a great oil formula called Udo’s Oil 3-6-9; with a ratio of 2:1 omega 3 to omega 6; check that out!
You may want to go to
http://robbwolf.com/
Listen to all the podcast and if something still isn’t clear, ask him a question.
He got over inflammatory bowel disease with a natural diet.
Daniel Vitalis was brilliant.
Just curious what happened to the actual debate format for the interviews?
Very much enjoyed Daniel Vitalis. By far my favorite speaker thus far.
So if we can’t all eat wild food what is his solution in the interm before this mass de-population takes place. Didn’t really have one I don’t think. You can feed a lot of people by growing grains; most of the grains that are grown are grown to feed to factory farmed cattle. Let’s start there. 10 billion animals are killed every year in the US for human consumption. Let’s stop breading animals in factory farms and feeding them grains. Most of this de-forestation that he talks about is done to grow grains for factory farmed animals, not people.
Daniel, your term ‘harvested’ means killed or experiencing untimely death, right? Please say ‘killed’ or ‘slaughtered’. Plants are harvested, but if you want to eat animals, you have to kill them by causing them pain. I don’t think any animal would volunteer to be your food. You’re talking about ‘meat’ as if that doesn’t mean the carcasses of living beings who have feelings just as you do. You’re seeing other livings beings as a commodity but they are not really different to you. You don’t want to feel fear and have your life ripped from you. I believe we should treat others as we would wish to be treated.
I love a good horror flick. I don’t think I’ll be able to sleep tonight.
So what do we do to disguise the savage engagement of human-approved cannibalism and carnivorism? We use euphemisms. We say chicken rather than dead slaughtered genetically engineered bird. We say pork instead of slaughtered pig flesh. We say beef instead of dead slaughtered cow flesh. We say lamb instead of dead slaughtered sheep flesh. We say seafood instead of dead ocean insects, bugs, or scavengers.
You see, we have to disguise this unnatural practice by calling the murdered creatures by euphemistic names and also cooking them (with spices) and serving them with other entrees (mashed potatoes, macaroni and cheese (cow snot, mucus), vegetables, etc.) to fool ourselves from engaging in such barbarism in a time of so-called human civility, refinement, and advancement.
Eating meat is such a disrespect to God who ordained fruit as our food for this dispensation in time of our fall (biological and anatomical degeneration) dating back 6,000 years ago. In order to eat meat, you have to kill, murder, annihilate, extinguish, terminate the life of, etc., of an innocent animal who wants to live just as much as you and I do. And the sad and confusing thing is, many of us who believe in God (that same God who told us Thou shall not kill) practice savagery, cannibalism, and carnivorism in the name of God and pray to God before we engage in such barbaric practices that we euphemistically call breakfast, lunch, and dinner; and under the silly notion of obtaining protein to be healthy. And you wonder why killing sprees and murder is so rampant in the world today, especially the United States.
If eating meat makes you big, meaty, or healthy, how then do you explain God’s biggest and greatest creatures (elephant, giraffe, horse, cow, buffalo, ox, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, gorilla, etc.) being so big and having so much protein and yet are vegetarian (herbivores)? You don’t have to eat meat in order to have meat on your body, just like you don’t have to eat fingernails in order to grow fingernails, or eat hair in order to grow hair.
Is it really worth it health-wise to eat meat (dead slaughtered animal flesh)? Consider these facts: since every type of meat you eat today is from the female animal, you are also eating synthetic female hormones given to the animals in order to make them develop faster and bigger, which is causing female reproductive area cancers in human women and prostate and testicular cancer in men; not to mention inundating your body with numerous parasites and worms; synthesizing the animals fear and stress from crowded living conditions and the fear of death while in the abattoirs; and when you eat them (their essence becomes your essence as you are what you eat); also, the by-product of meat consumption is uric acid (piss) which causes inflammation (-itis) i.e. arthr-itis, vagin-itis, bronch-itis, etc., which in turn creates more mucus in the body and excessively acidifies the body; and last but not least, eating meat makes you insane, i.e., Mad Humans Disease. If feeding meat (ground up cows) to cows causes Mad Cow Disease, does not feeding meat (ground up cow/beef or bird/chicken) to humans cause Mad Human’s Diseases? As the rappers say, Ya’ll better ask somebody. Meat is not food for humans! God did not give us the enzymes to digest meat, or fur, wool, or feathers for that matter. Human beings are vegetarians by nature, but the government society Net or Matrix made you a proud but ignorant FLESH EATER (Carnivore).
Agree with your statements. I am veggie for 20 + years. We need to understand that people want to “justify” their choices (such as “meat” eating) and listen to the information that supports their choice, and do their best to ignore the information that refutes it. The murder, pain, or cruelty involved gets pushed off to the side. How many “meat” eaters have visited a slaughterhouse or actually “kill” the animals they eat? no doubt very, very few of them and they are distanced from the suffering. We do live in a world where the “majority” consume the flesh and/or milk of animals and think that it is “normal” to do so…namaste’, rachel
So what do we do to disguise the savage engagement of human-approved cannibalism and carnivorism?
Who is disguising cannibalism?
“We use euphemisms.”
I have no misunderstanding about what I’m ingesting. I cannot speak for other, but I can assure you that a large consensus of humans is also aware.
“You see, we have to disguise this unnatural practice”
For the prior 6 years I have been a raw foodist. I eat animal flesh regularly. I have come to terms with the cycles of consumption inherent within reality. Everything is consuming everything else. I am at peace with the transformation of organisms and the dissolution of and change to and from this present experience. Humanity has become insulated from reality. Avoiding the human condition and mortality of the flesh is a vegan trip.
“Eating meat is such a disrespect to God”
What is God? The Grand Operative Dimension? That dimension is not limited to personal, rigid and temporal human emotional perceptions. It is an unconditional dimension. The rest of your response is deflated in the face of observation. The reality, is that we do not have one case for a group of individuals living beyond two or three generations without animal foods.
“how then do you explain God’s biggest and greatest creatures (elephant, giraffe, horse, cow, buffalo, ox, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, gorilla, etc.)”
You asked how to explain these animals. Why not do your own research? These animals have multiple stomachs, hundreds of thousands of enzymes and coenzymes, and unprecedented amount of fermentative bacteria. They spend every moment of their waking life eating and chewing. Dolphins on the other hand are carnivores and they are efficient, just like humans
Regarding your entire last paragraph. None of that applies to the individual obtaining animal foods from their own husbandry practices or hunting of game. Your ‘belief’ that humans are vegetarians by nature is an escape from the reality of anthropology and countless cultures of humans worldwide subsisting upon animal foods for endless generations. This includes your entire ancestral lineage. I have no doubt about that.
Healthiest regards,
~William
Great post William!
I like the oxymoronic nature of your “healthiest regards” signature, yet you eat meat regularly. Good luck with that. While I may agree with you about the anti-religion stance, I would still prefer a veg*n theist than an omnivorous atheist…One does a lot less harm and the atheist in this case is probably even MORE delusional.
Daniel is a smart guy, in comparison to Robert Young and Brian Clement –he doesn’t do thousands of clinical studies on patients and his arguments are based on history. Which is illogical to relate to the present. (soil was different, foods are different, people are different, etc). In order to understand what’s most nutritious we should look to the present, not the past.
Vitalis is not intelligent at all. He stopped being vegetarian after he continually EXCLUDED products from his diet. Doesn’t sound rational or even intelligent to me.
Humans are so degenerate pertaining to diet and thus eating everything like omnivores that they now have to determine blood type in order to improve upon their health. This is ludicrous! You need to look at my blood so as to determine what I should be eating? NONSENSE!
The gorilla in the plains of Africa knows what to eat without knowing its blood type. The kangaroo of Australia knows what to eat without knowing its blood type. The snake and the lizard know what to eat without knowing their blood type. But the human being, God’s so-called greatest creation? With all of their technology and so-called technological advancement, science, and academia, they are discombobulated! They are in a state of utter obfuscation!
They know how to make rocket ships to go into outer space but they don’t know what and how to eat. They know how to make diabolical atom bombs, but they don’t know what and how to eat. They can manipulate the weather, but they don’t know what and how to eat! Absolutely amazing to me!
At the zenith of his technological genius and scientific advancement, man is more at an utter loss today than ever before. Man’s technology and science is useless, futile, and detrimental because it cuts man off from Nature, the root of his core existence. In addition, it also makes him foolishly go against Natural/Divine/Universal/Cosmic Law.
If you break man’s law and are subject to penalty or punishment for doing so, what makes you think you can violate or go against higher law and not be subject to penalty or punishment?
Man thought he could eat whatever he wanted to and not be subject to penalty or punishment. Man is so blind today that he cannot see that his/her punishment and penalty for violating higher law is DIS-EASE/PATHOLOGY!
What do you think cancer, diabetes, genital herpes, high blood pressure, lupus, sarcoidosis, endometriosis, fibroid tumors, and hemorrhoids are? ANSWER: The effect of the cause of incorrect and improper eating, which we call DIS-EASE!
There is no Merck Manual listing of diseases for animals in the wild (free) and understandably so. Animals live in accordance pursuant to the immutable laws of Nature and the Universe, so there’s no disease amongst them (unless man is somewhere on the scene).
Man proudly and egotistically claims and professes belief in and relationship with God and at the same time is the sickest creature on the planet, especially here in the U.S. and other Western nations. So-called Third World Nations’ people are very sick too but much of that is due to the hands of Western nations and their greed and commercial diabolicalness.
The bush people of Africa are considered savages but these so-called savages have greater and more optimal health than the citizens from the most affluent nations on the earth.
The so-called savage bush people and other aboriginies around the planet had wise medicine men and women who actually practiced live blood cell microscopy. When a rare sickness or disease occurred, the medicine man/woman (healer) would prick a finger of the sick person and allow a little blood to come up and out. The medicine man/woman would then sprinkle a powdered herb onto the blood which would cause the blood to change color and whatever color the blood changed to, the medicine man/woman would know what the cause of the sickness or disease was and would treat the person accordingly. Not the disease, but the person! You see, you can’t treat a disease as it is not independent of the person. You must treat the person because the disease is an indicator of what’s wrong with the person. The disease has no existence without a host (person). So a wise person (healer) heals the person and on all levels. It is foolish to treat a disease because that would be the equivalent of treating a sensor. It’s like treating the oil lamp instead of the oil tank. The oil lamp is an indicator of the oil tank. The oil lamp is there becau
type. A lot of sheep-like people will end up eating things that are no good for them because some naturopathic doctor said.
There are many Americans in general and African-Americans in particular eating dairy, eggs, and meat under the pretense of eating right for their blood type. That blood type and related diet was determined by someone else. You are making yourself sick and killing yourself by trying to eat right based upon your blood type. You don’t have to harm yourself in order to eat right or attempt to eat right.
Okay then Djehuty, then what are folks to do in order to eat right? Listen, energy is far sufficient than blood. Blood is only for physiological purposes, but energy is for overall existence.
i eats first and foremost on a physical level based upon his bio-genetic makeup and blueprint. I eat according to my DNA programming as an earth or human being and ultimately as a cosmic being. You see, it’s twofold! We eat based upon the physical (biology and genetics or race/culture) and then the energetic (cosmic makeup). Energy is the first and only true food as we are truly energy beings. Now this doesn’t mean we knock or disregard the flesh body. We must acknowledge both.
On a rudimentary scale, we must eat according to our kind (phylum) and not simply our species. The species of birds do not only eat seeds. You must break that species down by its phylum. One phylum of birds (which includes parrot keet, hummingbird, canaries, and blue jays) are vegetarian. They eat seeds! Then another phylum of birds (which includes vultures, eagles, hawks, and buzzards) eats MEAT (FLESH)! They eat blood! They are predators!
If you feed the birds who are vegetarian, animal flesh, they will die. If you feed the predatory birds, seeds or vegetarian matter, they will die. They are all birds and members of the bird species, but they are broken down into tribes, classes, or phylum. This is present in Nature and is Natural law! All species knows it and respects it, except for human beings!
Human beings are so lost that in the Bible human beings are told to learn from the animals – the beasts of the field, the fowls of the air, and the fish of the sea (Book of Job, Chapter 12).
Good points, indeed it is very sad that we humans have evolved so much that we have become completely lost when it comes to our basic needs like eating. We are very disconnected from nature, and I also think this is the main reason for our problems.
But I think you made an error there comparing human species with bird species. Birds are not a genre of species, there are species between birds just like there are species between primates, and humans are one form of primates and very different from gorillas for example.
So in that sense, there are no such thing as a carnivore human. Humans are all omnivores, but we do have different races and types of metabolism.
Daniel was disappointing–lots of misleading misinformation and rationalization. David Wolfe is somewhat inspiring to listen to, but not based in reality for most of us who need to exist on actual foods, rather than long lists of expensive “super foods” that we can’t begin to afford. And don’t tell us that it’s just a matter of prioritizing where we spend our money. For many of us, having any money at all for food is difficult. I also disapprove of his excursions into various animal products. Colostrum supports the dairy industry and takes away the very substance crucial to a healthy start for a calf. When I was a child (many years ago) in a small town, the farmers would not have thought to take the colostrum for themselves, knowing the calf needed it. Of course, if you are in the veal market, what the calf needs for a healthy start is of no importance. Enough ranting from me–just disappointed in several of the guests in this series and feeling less enlightend and more like the recipient of their various rationalizations and sales pitches.
Thank you, Kevin for putting on this program so we can hear what they have to say. It must be hard to remain neutral during the interviews. You’re doing a great job.
The best point Daniel made was that the plant kingdom is just as important as the animal kingdom. We should take that into consideration when we choose energy sources in the future. Also, humans may evolve to a point where we need little to no food. It’s possible that breathatarians and sun-gazers may actually get nutrition that we don’t quite understand yet.
its simple people is suppose to eat first and foremost on a physical level based upon his bio-genetic makeup and blueprint. I eat according to my DNA programming as an earth or human being and ultimately as a cosmic being. You see, it’s twofold! We eat based upon the physical (biology and genetics or race/culture) and then the energetic (cosmic makeup). Energy is the first and only true food as we are truly energy beings. Now this doesn’t mean we knock or disregard the flesh body. We must acknowledge both.
On a rudimentary scale, we must eat according to our kind (phylum) and not simply our species. The species of birds do not only eat seeds. You must break that species down by its phylum. One phylum of birds (which includes parrot keet, hummingbird, canaries, and blue jays) are vegetarian. They eat seeds! Then another phylum of birds (which includes vultures, eagles, hawks, and buzzards) eats MEAT (FLESH)! They eat blood! They are predators!
If you feed the birds who are vegetarian, animal flesh, they will die. If you feed the predatory birds, seeds or vegetarian matter, they will die. They are all birds and members of the bird species, but they are broken down into tribes, classes, or phylum. This is present in Nature and is Natural law! All species knows it and respects it, except for human beings!
Human beings are so lost that in the Bible human beings are told to learn from the animals – the beasts of the field, the fowls of the air, and the fish of the sea (Book of Job, Chapter 12).
David Wolfe was interesting. My issue about his superfoods and recommendations is not about the food itself but that these are not easily found in some countries outside of the USA. Those found, such as Goji berries, can be expensive to purchase. We need a David Wolfe in every country to teach us what wild foods to eat locally.
Daniel Vitalis – sorry. I tried to listen with an open mind but was put off when he started talking about veganism being like a cult and it never got better for me. He admits to being a bit of a zealot himself during his journey through vegaism and raw veganism but he should not tar everyone with the same brush. I suspect, from the story he tells, that he didnt do well because he choose to make extreme food choices rather than making healthy choices with a range of fruit, vegetables, grains and nuts/seeds. At the end of the day it sounds like he is making lots of excuses for his meat eating and trying hard to make the science fit. Makesme think of the saying “There are lies, damn lies and statistics”.
I have no issue at all if people choose to be vegan, vegetarian or omnivores. But i will say this: of all the people i have met in my life who have an interest in nutrition, the most dogmatic and evangelical in the their approach have tended to be raw or vegan.
It doesn’t surprise me either: If i believed that eating any animal produce is tantamount to cannibalism of some kind, that it was directly responsible for the destruction of our planet and it was the source of most of the disease in the world (views shared by MANY vegans/veggies, including many people on this board), then i would be dogmatic and evangelical too!
Let me point out that i certainly don’t believe all or even a majority of vegans are of this disposition. I am friends with many non-judgmental, open-minded vegans and vegetarians. The tendency for an evangelical approach is just something that i have noticed over the years.
Hi David,
Thouroughly enjoyed your story.
Excellent discussion between two intelligent minds; I think Vitalis’s argument would be better suited to a grand designer argument than an evolutionary one (i.e. that we were designed to eat meat and veggies), especially when Lucy was mentioned which is false evidence – fact; Also I completely disagree with his population perspective. All of recorded history shows that we as a human race have been technologically changing our environment. Where you get evidence prior to that – I’m not sure
Loved David’s talk. He is so full of information. Can’t wait to see him in a few weeks here in Australia. Very interesting about the Reishi and chaga mushrooms. Am really enjoying this debate and the wealth of info being shared. This debate is helping me absorb more than I could before. Really great
I agree I wish David could be here in Australia all the time! The way he speaks makes it much easier to understand and absorb
I am sorry… I just don’t get it.
Why was not David Wolfe asked about mans historical and “natural” – and if there is such a thing – diet? What did he have to say about eating local? About shipping powders all over the planet?
I am listening to Daniel Vitalis now, but I doubt that he will even get a question about the toxicity of meat…?! Or his opinion on spirituality/food…
He is just doing his usual rant about our historical diet…
The one he knows and is comfortable with… just his usual lecture.
And Kevin, WHY, oh WHY did you not ask David about your “cacao incident”?!? He practically BEGGED for it – but you did not even mention it!!! HOW could you let such an opportunity just slide??
I just don’t get it!! I really don’t!!!
Would it not have been very valuable for the audience to know that he in fact has stated that ‘cacao is a recreational DRUG, and you should be careful with cacao if you have weak adrenals’.
Now people are gonna go out buy cacao for longevity (since it is the most tasty/easily accessed), and the doctors get even more patients they can put on thyroid medicine because of diffuse diagnosis!
I don’t even listen to Daniel… I have already heard his message, and… well, he’s not being questioned about the interesting stuff…
I don’t think Daniel makes any sense at all. In fact I think he contradicted himself. I also think the manner in which he spoke was condescending. His talk which I only listened to half of, did not inspire me to eat meat. Whether you don’t eat meat for “religious” or whatever reason you can’t get past how it just sits & rots in your gut, makes you constipated, makes you stink, and has scientifically been proven to cause bowel cancer. Where was the science in Daniel’s talk. I am not against meat eaters, most of my family eats meat and I love them dearly for who they are not what they eat. But my mum is dying from bowel cancer and she ate and still prefers a predominantly meat diet with very little vegetables or raw food. My father eats predominantly meat and has heart disease, high cholestorol and high blood pressure. My uncles bar one had the same diet and died of cancer. My mum has insulin diabetes, my sister has diabetes, my grandmother had diabetes and so on and so on ….. I am vegetarian and sometimes high raw with little dairy – I have none of these diseases thank god. Cancer was little known 50 years ago but in that time pesticides and pollution and processed food, and junk food have creeped into our food chain and environment. The meat and vegetables are polluted with these toxins. I am no scientist it’s just common sense. I applaud David Wolfe and others like him for bringing some sanity and real guidance into this world. Should be more like him. Sorry I hope I don’t sound angry because I’m not. Just surprized at the predominance of people on this debate supporting meat eating
What else do they eat?
Jude it doesn’t rot in your gut etc you are just repeating propaganda. People support eating meat because it makes sense.
Sue, consume meat today…it comes out of your body in three days and does stink,
putrify and rot in your body.True carnivores (lions, tigers, bears, dogs) have a SHORT INTESTINE to maximize the expulsion of meat quickly. Vegetarian animals have a LONG INTESTINE to maximize the absorbtion of plant matter and protien. Humans are meant to be vegetarians and have the physical design to be so. sorry.
Important point.
every one wanna live longer.
every one wanna live healthier. maybe be more in live more enjoy more connected more intense or feel different intenses.
for me it sounds racist to order everything on longest life aka longivity. I think it has different dimensions.There . I believ a life span of one year or few seoand can have the same intense like a lifespan from over hundret. it has different intenses.
its discriminating to rante everything to a longivity life. This isnt the only health purpose. Some also belief that their spirits go over to other spirits. and that we are in a sea of life. It doesnt matter if we live long or short. We just feel the message of transporting our inner light and cultureal sense to our next ancestral beings and spirits.
longivity is one concept of life. I think a lot people would rather choice a life with more dramatic intension or some organism lifemuch longer than hundret years. there are different views on living and living and health in different dimension in universal being. So every thing can be longivity so hundret years maybe only aone path way.
Jude, although science may have “proved” that meat causes cancer, it’s worth noting the high correlation between meat consumption and wheat/gluten consumption, which hasn’t been acknowledged in those studies… It was my experience that by going raw, I eliminated grains, which is why I felt so good. Eliminating grains while eating meat, animal fat and vegetables has yielded me an even greater result than raw veganism. I always felt so strongly about “raw” and “live” foods being the supposed cure for everything, but as it turns out, it may be more about gluten being an unnatural food for the human race (we only started eating them 10,000 years ago). David Wolfe builds his diet around superfoods, which are all processed and completely inaccessible in nature, whereas Vitalis bases his around wild foods that occur naturally in the wild.. Check out the book ‘The Vegetarian Myth’- you can download it here: http://www.filesonic.com/file/9359029/1604860804_The_Vegetarian_Myth.pdf
I wouldn’t say that the book is perfect, but it makes some good points, both nutritionally and environmentally.
That book is a collection of beautifully written misinformation, half truths, and outright manipulation.
Please check out this article : http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/09/review-of-the-vegetarian-myth.html
And this *entire website* (yes, you need a whole site to cover all the inaccuracies . . . ) : http://vegetarianmythmyth.wordpress.com/about/
Yep, I have read that stuff.
Bullshit.
worrie be neurotic to live longer
choclate honey olive oil longivity herbs
tabaccore rare goodfor health
exclude some natural tabacco used ceremonial by special indegenious peoples
raw meat dangerous, fish is safer, fish has tapworm
david wolf got away from parasites
one thing david wolfe says often google it” look detailed. The problem is google is in the first pages filled with proffesional seller, its hard to find good information always. it takes time to find out what is wright and not.
And if it show ten link reffer to david wolf people. and maybe two who not influence by david wolfe. Its hard to refer google as neutral source for information. Its a nutral source if you can use it like it.
by now google is also earning money with rating and google ads.
parasite. Is this overrated. is cleanse overated. There are herbs collected from all over the planet in one box. Is this good and healthy shippping all the herbs together. Can i just use a mono herbal remedy. like just garlic or just pumkinseeds or just cloves. What about antiparasite herbs which grows in the backyard.
I wish people would orrder this clease topic, bowel cleanse, parasite cleanse, and and.
there a lot confused topic in this health buisness. im sure the best prcticners are still in small villages not reachable. Maybe they live thirty years or hundret or just ten. I think health is different. And it worksmultidimensional. so it dont works. putting all good things together in a pill or powder and swallow it.
this isnt ecological for all. So the mankind didnt surive. some people like to live simple some like to be more complex with all the elexirs and superfoods.
is there special diets, for people who are very active, are very sportive active, work physical, or people who work more with the mind, or spiritual,
What i can eat if i more in the mood to be less active.
what if i just wanna move less.
just for a period.
If i eat a rich diet i have to use this richness.
*****
“too alkaline”
get alkaline..alkaline balnce
you get smooth.
*****
nuts and seeds .
selery to the almond butter
***
i you eat the meat you eat the bone its the alkaline fat source. the bone marrow.
**
there is not right and wrong there are choices
*******
the idea wright and wrong is too primitive****
your diet is all your food…
****
diet
superfoods
superherbs
****
battle of the diets
***
superfoods are real vitamins are not real
****
superherb department is where the action is in the long run
*****
chaga is the most powerfull anticancer…
*****
Oh, so many questions, so many questions…
So what does Daniel Vitalis think about the toxicity of animals? All the pesticides and stuff that they collect.
What about his opinion on raw versus cooked meet?
What about spirituality? Is he at all interested in that aspect?
What about the (too) high concentration of minerals in meet?
I find these lectures rises more questions than where answered…
Kev, you’ve done an amazing job bringing all these speakers together and you have been very diplomatic with each of them, thanking them for sharing their time and expertise. So I was very surprised when you failed to thank Daniel Vitalis at the end of his talk. Whether this was deliberate or just an oversight, I don’t know, but it just seemed a little rude. I’m sure you didn’t mean it to seem that way, just wanted to point it out.
Daniel Vitalis experienced what is knon in Chinese medicine Stomach Qi deficiency from eating too much raw food. He would not have been so sick if he had cooked his food every now and again. Going back to the blue zones all these people cook their food and eat grains. We ate “wild” foods because humanity was nomadic. Hunter gatherers do not have long life spans. Most lived not much longer than 60. The limbic system of the brain was larger, what ADHD kids have overactive. Sorry he lost me at the “women can’t have babies naturally anymore due to small hips” What a load of … I have had a caesarian first and was told something similar but with the aid of Chinese medicine I had my second child naturally in 3 hours. If I want to be a neanderthal I follow his diet.
even Apes are eating small amounts of meat insects or small mammals or smaller or weaker monkeys. So how do they protect against bacteria and parasites?
Is parasites a myth , which is overated?
Are parasites a symbiose?
Monkeys have, more apes have a big variety of food? They have a first choice and a alternative choice. There is some science on this.
Ugh, God… David going about superfoods and Vitalis talking about veganism being a cult.
Where is the golden middle ground people??
Seriously, there is nothing sustainable about shipping goji berries all the way from China.
And also it is not very realistic to think that in our overpopulated world we would have enough game and ethical meat to go around for everyone. Yeah, and also fish oil. Our seas are allready extremely overfished.
And who said anyone is cultivating algae in the middle of any desert? That is quite unheard of.
Vitalis also lost all credibility when he said that it is no more unethical to factory farm meat than it is to farm plants. Unbelievable.
Yes, I do agree that we humans are omnis. BUT I don’t think a vegan diet is impossible in any way, and that it wouldn’t be more sustainable than a omni diet. There is a lot of research going on, on how to make our diet more sustainable amongst scientists and even politicians. Number one idea is to decrease meat consumption and come up with alternatives.
Yes, soy was a disaster and rarely sustainable. But that doesn’t mean than we could not find and thrive on better alternatives like hemp for example. It doesn’t even have to be a superfood.
Hemp and nettle for example are way better.
Thanks Kevin for this interview btw, I did enjoy it a lot even though I’m just criticising
thanks for the knd words thaks everyone for his opinion.
i think it can be helpful to press the pause bottom and listen some passages in five or ten second chapters. And repeat this.
To clear a bit what people saying. Its so easy to misunderstand or to interpret it in my own view.
I think a lot misunderstood daniel vitalis words. I think its abit much together and he is not trying to clear thingsup directly or jumps a bit.
So if you interested what he says. Listen the speach in small parts. When you feel confused or get anger. This section where you might feel anger, might be very worthful. and you can repeat it. maybe let it go. Write a text on it or paint a picture. or dream on it and then listen again. or make a break in the call. Sometimes its not good to always to intense to something. we forget our feeling and get anger or disapointment.
Take it easy.if it is realy nasty or . speach up and write things to daniel vitalsi. Hej Daniel i didnt like this and still dont like this sentence you saind. write the email twice or three times. that he listen to this. If you write it too much it will be selected as spam.
keep balance
i hope we get some new superfoods out og space, by comets or aliens. or what ever. maybe people start to ive on nitrogen or amonium or mathan,
is tihkn we all look to stiff in one way. we know other organism are totally different.
maybe we will eat rocks or utate again. i would like to know if we already mutated again.
In comparison to the universe we are so small. why we not accept this. the more i think on this i feal even fast food aka junk food has a sense. Now we can leave it behind.
Do something better for ourself. Anyway we feed not us we feed the universe. In the universe there is so much different organism and a lot like toxike substances still their are devine and a part of something whole.
there are lot of thing what will happen in the next hundret or thousand years and maybe its so unbeleavable that we shame on our stiffness in mind. which we face now.
I have been listening to everyone carefully in hopes to improve my nutritional choices. i think all are very well educated and I respect them. Today I loved the talk with David Wolfe, However Daniel Vitalis I was greatly disappointed in! his information seemed to be distorted and to outright deny actual scientific proof was gutsy and … well I found him to show a bitterness and he does not take into the facts in HIS theory to look at the climate and weather were these people live, Of course you are going to traditionally eat a meat based diet when all the land is covered my ice! and only eat vegetables and fruits and raw only in the summer when the ice thaws, or in the high mountain cultures were again many variety of nutrient rich foods are limited and they have to eat meat. If he looks at locations were there is a possibility to have greens and supper rich nutrient dense foods (wild)the people DO CHOOSE to eat more vegetable historically and more raw fresh wild herbs and so on over the consuming of meat. Meat is usually only eaten HISTORICALLY in the WINTER months. His theory that raw or vegan or veggie is a religious choice then lets look at religion, the good book says, (summed up)eat grain, veggies, fruit seasonally and meat only in winter months or times of famine or drought, because there is no plant based nutrients to grow or find. His theory is flawed in my opinion. And the stupid thing that women no longer can have babies through vaginal,is not right, women have CHOSEN to have C-sect, I did vaginal and yes I can understand the desire to C-sect the baby even though I never will, it is better vaginally anyhow. But it is not because women can no longer do it. We CHOOSE not to push out a mellon out of a pea hole people! LOL.
to clear some misunderstanding when listening to Daniel Vitalis.
What he mention is obvious. There are indegenous culture. Pleople who live close to the earth. Hunt gather and farm their own food and this in a long tradition under thread of political and finnancial aspects.
One point Daniel Vitalis point out was that raw super food that need to be farmed in big scale, take place of a ecosystem. So for farmland you have to take forests or other place where wild animal life. If you have a fish farm or a algae farm it is a big impact on a ecosystem. One question which comes up are mussel farms more ecological than algaefarms?
The algae will lead that new species of fish settle, this fish attract new predators. And through such a vegan ideologie of a environental friendly alga farm it becomes a unbalance in this ecosystem.
New species will come , settle and this will attract predators and also carnivore animals. So a whole ecosystem will change. Are we god! So its better to take the oil from the fish direct. instead of taking the DHA fat from the alga. Also you need technologie where you manufacture and extract the DHA from algae. This means you have to clear cut forest to set a industry and fabric there. This means roads has to build. You have to pay loan to the workers. If you want that the workers eat well give food to them.
A sustaiable system could be to have a decentral alga farm in small scall, together with a regulated decentral fishing. So i think the combination of to ideas, the vegan way and the wild way of fishing fish and getting the oil from it is combined the solution.
There are lts of people going on antiagriculture on antticivilisation and rewilding. You will find more of this idea, maybe more soace or grounded than daniel vitalis. He isnt the most extre theorist in this group of beings.
To meat consumption historically. The meat consumption historically only eat in winter. The neanderthals nutrition only based mostly on meat and small scale regulating an important herbal plants. They moved a lot and had different consttution than us. Different had different skin more body hair.
To they meat where only eat in winter It depends on the time and the place. Daniel Vitalis mention Sahara tribe who eat meat. Tribe in Afrika eat regulary meat. Inuit eat meat also regulary or they eat modern processed junk food.
I heard from documentaries that meat over period was only for the upper class people.In the time before columbus cross the ocean. This is interested time. Europe was totally farmed. The farming in Europe lead that earth and substances from farming go into the rivers and ocean and killed the animals. People harvested wood in big scale. To build buildings churches sites, industries for weapons.This took the space for animals to live. So backt to Daniel Vitalis point: Agriculture and technology takes animal space to live. And if a modern Diet depends on Technology it will take space from the animals to produce the foods for the diets.
What ever Daniel Vitalis say. For the coming day and years and infinty there is need for small scale agriculture. Somepeople hve to face this GMO organism. O the otherside i think some people will adapt to the genetic modified food. the most will get sick. Some people will grow their food. Some places have to be rewilde so we need to destroy cut the agriculture and culture forest and space for wild animals. Then we can start hunting in a form of regulation. That the ecosystem is balanced.
If you know on indegenous issues you understand that the speach of Daniel Vitalis is multidimensional. In comparison to other health experts maybe it sound bitter to you. Its real in some way. And it is how it is. Yeah he also is a marketing guy. but things he mentioned are also mentioned buy other folks. And actually with more bitterness than daniel does it. And it is mentioned more grounded and unintrestand.
In the last year i more read article how a small amount of meat, good raised on good organic sustainable food is more ecological to the planet than a vegan or vegetarian diet. The global consinous, the global mind changed. to a more openess to a ecological meat way.
This will come more.
If you look like the people of sea shepard try to get japanese fisherman to stop fishing dolphins or whales. You will understand that there is something essential challanging.
They need this occupation this tradition, somehow this meat. On one side its totally horrific on the ther side its in a small scale essential.
Actually its horrific how this animal are murdered and slaughtered. i just watched a video on this.
I tihkn it would be better this people go on ecological sustainable fishing than on vegetable gardening on the ocean. If its better for the animals than this is great. Pain a vision , show a roadmap how animals and humans can live peaceful ethicaly correct together.
To religious choice what daniel Vitalis mentioned. He said that Hindus in India eat vegetarian, by the way they eat milk. They arent vegan. This is based on a system on a civilisation, with houses anda form of cultureal structure. He said so it is a religious choice to dont eat meat. so far i know its right. The hindus dont eat meat to keep them pure and clean. They eat milk chees and ghee.
Vegan and Vegetarian culture and lifestyle shows in big cites capitals or in places where a minimum of culture exist. This means santarian system toiletts industry hospitals, libaries books internet. power plants nuclear power. So vegan and vegetarian ulture is based on a civilisation which takes resources from mother earth. This changes the planet and the lndscape so immense. That various animals get threatend. So if a diet is based on this upper cultural standard it has a negativ effect on the ecosystem.
Animal meat is eaten in the tropical rainforest in the cold climates in the mountains. Actually the biodiversity of plants is very hig and wide in the north also in the mountains. who says there arent mouch plants in the north or in the ice or in the mountains, this isnt tru. its false.
Its to less to stay alife.
Maybe it will happen that the earth peacefully growth slowly smoothie juicy back to the warm tropical continent pangaia where we all are raw vegans. so it will come like it. ????????????
There will stay placesin this dimension where people need to kill animals and eat this meat. Wheater its hig in minerals or not. dont stress you on this point to much. On a meat diet i suggest you dont stress you to much with thought. Just give your energy in live. Honour and admire your energiy you get from the meat and bring it in life.
Historical meat consumption. there were times where mankind humans eat nealy allmost meat. There where times where they eat a little meat. there where time where humans eat their own meat. Often they eat insect or frogs or snakes. or small game mammals like hares.
Kevin, I’m loving all your questions !!! Thank you!
Daniel Vitalis mentioned that vegetable growing needs animal manure !I used to have a big garden and was very successful with green Manures ; growing covercrops like buckwheat, winterwheat , white clover etc. Then you turn them under when they are still small and green and let it decompose. You will have clean , nutrientrich , non animal manure. And because of that fewer plant diseases and bugs. Of course when farmers raise the animals for meat they have to figure out what to do with all the manure.
I was wondering if all of David Wolfe’s information regarding superfood and the information in his programs is on his website
thebestdayever.com, it looks like there’s lots of information there. I was also wondering how grounding works.
You can find out about David Wolfe’s grounding hypothesis at:
http://longevitynowbonus.com/blog/the-importance-of-grounding-yourself-using-david-wolfes-grounding-technologies
I think he discovered the joy of going barefoot.
BOTH speakers presented interesting points of view from their experiences and belief system.
I am a vegetarian/vegan consuming mostly raw foods so I do believe in Davids’ stance. Daniel believes that “history” shows us what we are meant to do/be…I disagree. Just because “man” historically killed animals for food does not make it right or healthy for us or the planet. Because history shows so many wars does that mean we can never have peace? also meat-eating creates a more aggressive population, likely leading to so many wars!. “Man” killed animals for food
because it was readily available dense food
(according to their needs)…it also allowed
“man” back then to believe they were superior to the animals they killed. They were probably incredibly constipated, and had a short life span, since meat contains no fiber. How would man grow vegetables back then with so many huge creatures as competition?.
He also states that we need vitamin D from animal foods. Historically we were given the SUN and sun-worshiping for natural
vitamin D.
The creator made us VEGETARIANS through our physical characteristics. Vegetarian animals have a long intestinal system (for
maxiumum absorbtion of PLANT PROTIENS), teeth that grind side to side, and fingers for picking up things. Carnivorous animals have a short intestine (to eliminate that
dense, PUTRIFYING meat out quickly), teeth that ONLY go up and down (for tearing and ripping animal flesh), and claws (for ripping into animals bodies to kill). In all of the centuries “man” has been killing animals for “food” our body has not changed and morphed into the characteristics of meat
eating carnivores, because we have always been and were created to be, vegetarians.
One more point, whether man chooses to drink the milk of another animal or not, through “history”…all animals are designed to DRINK THE MILK OF THEIR OWN SPECIES until they are weaned. “Man” is the only animal that convinces itself of the “need” to not only drink the milk of ANOTHER animal (cow) but also to consume it AS AN ADULT…
namaste’, rachel
how in the world can you safely fast on orange juice? someone PLEASE address this mammoth glycemic load in the body.
i did 108 days once, added spirulina and fresh goji juice and e3 live…felt great..
I’m actually going in all directions after these debates so far! Yesterday I was almost totally ready to get on mostly an “alkalarian” diet. Including no coffee, no chocolate, no sweets and so on. And that sugar in most any form was killing my body! Today after David Wolfe, I’m not so sure about that. My inner question keeps being, well how much of each food should I eat. Is my oatmeal, with stevia, raisins and walnuts an ok food, so now the beans, rice and lettuce…. and more importantly, I want the best diet, foods available for my baby girl as we move away from breast milk. Seriously, what to do!
Whether you agree with what Daniel Vitalis had to say or not, in my opinion, he has been the most passionate speaker so far.
Yes, he does take everything overboard just a bit doesn’t he? David has been passionate about gathering knowledge, and continuing his education like no other. He’s much more confident and calm than Daniel imho.
Mr. Vitalis is wrong. Religion is NOT the only reason for a vegan diet. I am SERIOUSLY ALLERGIC to EVERYTHING that comes from animals, not just meat, milk, and eggs, but fur, dander, and feathers as well. I CANNOT eat animal foods, and I can’t have animals in my home, or visit in the home of anyone with pets. I can’t take fish oils either. It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
What is meant on this point. Whas tha a upper higher civilisation is needed at the fundament to create a vegan diet.
a vegan or vegetarian diet only occurs on the fundament of a higher upper civilisation.
If you are allergic or somebody else to animal whatever, this is based on maybe a doctors statement or on personal education. This is all a product of a upper civilisation.
If so one would live more anticiv and face his or hers allergies. Try to deal with it. Maybe you could eat meat without problems. Things can change under surival circumstance. Real circumstances.
Thank you Daniel!
I’ve been sharing the concept of living with what nature provides for a few years now.
We as a species are omnivores, we can make a choice to eat one type of food verses another for spiritual or ethical reason, but the bottom line is we are omnivores.
The more you distort your surroundings the more you will suffer it’s effects. Processed foods and artificial lifestyles contribute to the continual decline of body, mind, and spiritual health in our “civilization.”
What most people misunderstand is that as omnivores the standard American concept of animal protein is not meant for us.
In nature the largest – and most easily accessible – food source is plant life. The most dominant color in nature is green. Fruits are vividly colorful and fragrant, making them visually appealing and palatable.
Insects and small animals that are able to be captured and consumed without the aid of tools or appliances are within our omnivore diet, but I must admit are far from palatable for me.
What I call Whole Food Nutrition is a concept of eating food as nature made it, in its whole original state. The closer you are to its original state the best for you in every capacity. The more you process your food the further you are from its optimum benefit provided by nature.
Thus wild foraging, in my opinion, is the best way to obtain your nutrition. Having said that however, most of us are unable to sustain ourselves in this manner. Either due to insufficient knowledge and experience in wild edibles, or lack of accessibility to land that provides a variety of wild edibles.
So we must make the best choices from what is available to us and take it as a personal responsibility to research what we are putting into and on our bodies.
You must chose for yourself what kind of life style you live, but should keep in mind how your lifestyle affects not only you but your brethren and your surroundings.
I am listening to Daniel Vitalis and just had to comment. In general, I have found all the different perspectives interesting to listen to so far. However, I have to comment that I am disgusted by Daniel Vitalis’s statement of “this is why so many women today do not give birth through their vaginas but instead have c-sections… because their hips aren’t big enough.” This is
(1) untrue
(2) a completely uneducated comment
(3) shows that he knows very little about childbirth
(4) for me, calls anything else he says into question
Honestly, I’m offended he would say something like this. The reason more women have c-sections has nothing to do with their hips, and everything to do with a more complex interaction between doctors, liability, insurance and changing cultural ideas. Mr. Vitalis should stick to what he knows.
It has a lot to do with what you mentioned but it certainly is to do with the hips too. Why would you be offended by that?
Because it is incorrect. There are no reliable measurements regarding whether your fetus’s head will fit through your pelvis. Any doctor that says “your hips are too small” is just guessing. The only way they could know that is if your baby gets stuck on the way out and you have to have an emergency c-section. This is a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of cases. In reality what happens is that your doctor tells you your hips are too small, but what he’s really saying is: I don’t want to deal with even the smallest possibility of complications; or I want to schedule this to make it easier on myself; or I get paid more if you get a c-section; or I don’t want to deal with the liability of a vaginal birth; or I don’t fully understand my own test results.
Like I said, there are no reliable tests or measurements for this in advance of the actual birth. Current tests have an extremely large margin of error and are very inaccurate. If your doctor ever tells you that you have to have a c-section because your hips are too small, make sure you get the full story and make your own decision. And I would find another doctor too.
I highly recommend you read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. It will make all of what Daniel explained about narrow hips and crooked teeth completely clear and indisputable.
It’s been proven that most c-sections are completely unnecessary.
Daniel Vitalis said that small scale farming has a lower eco-footprint than farming for vegans and I need to correct that
* It takes 7-8 lbs of grains to nourish an animal
* In his book The Humanure Handbook: How To Compst Your Own Manure, Joeseph Jenkins shows a detailed plan of how people from all walks of life can hygienically make fertilizer for growing crops
Exactly, and there are only few places in the world where it would be possible to have gracing cattle without having to produce grains for them.
Oh, and not to mention the amount of water it takes to produce meat, methane gas that is going to the atmosphere, ethical problems, water pollution, erosion etc. etc.
If there would be no factory farming, a lot, I mean huge amount of land could be used to produce human food – plants – instead of grains to produce meat.
To say that meat production would be more sustainable is just ludicrous. Of course if you compare like a small scale local farm and a huge soy plantation, then of course the local farmed meat is gonna seem more sustainable.
But who said that plants cannot be farmed sustainably, that is just absurd.
And we don’t need massive amounts of animal manure for fertilizer. Actually animal manure is one of the top one reasons so many waters are polluted today. We have problems with too much animal manure.
I am not at all convinced by this talk about happy meat and sustainable meat production. I think it is very elitist to think that everyone could afford and get their hands on ethically produced meat. It isn’t possible for the majority of the human population. The same with superfoods.
I was so disappointed to hear that Daniel Vitalis, who I had previously assumed must be super educated on nutrition and even history, as David Wolfe is, had some of the oldest, flimsiest arguments for eating meat in the book. I couldn’t believe his “revelation” came from Weston Price’s book, as if this book is all that revelatory: all it tell us is that processed foods are terrible for us to eat.
What makes him think that today, in 2011, we know what all cultures have eaten in the history of mankind? Particularly studying indigenous cultures still around today, as he says he does, is ridiculous. Most of them have been wiped off the face of the earth within the last few hundred years absolutely without a trace.
Immature, so-called primitive people can be easily characterized by their desire for egotistical glory which hunting perfectly fulfills. People will eat what tastes good. These two statements explain history where meat-eating is concerned. If you gave refined sugar to our ancestors, which they would have eaten thousands of years ago had they the technology, they would eat it all day and love it! Distant ancestors don’t have some kind of “natural” ability to choose their food perfectly. Note that technology is required to hunt because humans don’t have the jaws or claws to kill cows, buffalo, etc. with their bare hands.
“I couldn’t believe his “revelation” came from Weston Price’s book, as if this book is all that revelatory: all it tell us is that processed foods are terrible for us to eat.”
Immature, so-called primitive people can be easily characterized by their desire for egotistical glory which hunting perfectly fulfills.
Primitive people is a racial slur. You will hurt the people who you want to name.
The right expression is indegenous peoples and the s is so important that they discussed two weeks on this. Just understand indegenous issues are very sensitive, more sensitive like other things we know.If you not believe look for surival international, you find how it is. Or you look at UN papers. Every year there is a conference in Geneve.
Just imagine if some people mix there 200dollar euro yen superfods superherbs , other people who live close to earth are slaughtered by military, in worst case or the forest are cut down or they pollute the water through mining.
Primitive skills is fair to say. Primitive people is racial cause this was be used to bring them culture which hurts them.
Its not fair. When you read or listen to indegenous issues you will understand more than love and light and expensive raw food lifestyle. Its very sensitive and complex. multidemnsional and sunshine and thunderstorm. as well love. more love you ever will imagine.
Language is also about how you make use of it. I have always used the term primitive people in a positive way since I model much of my eating after them. To assume it must mean something negative I only hear from white collage students
“Immature, so-called primitive people can be easily characterized by their desire for egotistical glory which hunting perfectly fulfills.”
this is very hurting, and makes anger to them you point at.
its so multilayered stop pointing at other people and you have a chance to understand this deep rooted people!
“If you gave refined sugar to our ancestors, which they would have eaten thousands of years ago had they the technology, they would eat it all day and love it! ”
If you would gave the sugar they probably would die. And a part would rebel against it. The pain sugar makes, the soothing effect the slowness, this people would get easily target of predators . Surival of the fittest. Maybe it would clean out a whole ancestars and you wouldnt be here . Have you never seen movies on timetravel. If you change one thing, we might not born. So without our ancestor lived without white sugar we wouldnt have this world we have. There might would no vegan diet. Maybe no human anyway.
“Note that technology is required to hunt because humans don’t have the jaws or claws to kill cows, buffalo, etc. with their bare hands.”
your text is very bias and racist. this is called subtile racism. Painting picture of people who suffer and paint tham in a different way they are. You claim on a minority you not realy know and understand.
This people you mean catch fish with hand. they dont need tools. Eat bugs and insects with hands, eat eggs with hands without tools eat sometimes frogs and fisheggs without hands..
stop this biasing it dont help minorities, dont help indegenous people it dont help you getting a better diet.
“People will eat what tastes good. These two statements explain history where meat-eating is concerned. ”
What taste good changes. There is this common miracle that people who are on a standard diet, american call it SAD. Bread, sugar cereals soda, some greens. When this people go to a organic whole diet or healthy vegetarian diet with some organic food. At the first they mention.”I dont like it, it taste herb bitter” After a while the taste changes. And they differ on thier tanque. Taste is a learning eyperience. For some people orgnaic food first tastes strange if you come from a white bread sugar sometimes meat and vegetabel diet. After a while aware tasting you will adap to the new food , feel more fit and lively and you will like it.
Sugar is very aggresive. Its so complex you could look up for animals who get sugar. what happens to them. Im sure there is an answer on ure accusation you telling. You can claim on daiel vitalis, if you claim on indegenous people. Stay at the fact and dont claim at people who care of a balance ecosystem live ecologicaly, are caretaker for the earth are respected and under repression of industry politicians and also newage hardcore spirituals or diet extremist. Its a myth you claim up.
“What makes him think that today, in 2011, we know what all cultures have eaten in the history of mankind? ”
i understand, this is unpuzzled puzzle which is full of filled and unfilled space.
What he is mentioning. is science. There is a c14 method. Its a bit on radiation you can messure time on the c atom. C is carbohydrate. The human skeleton is made of carbohydrate.You can define the age whith this method very accurate. Some how they can define food cause they find explore the jaws and the poop or amber whith high medical , its is be scanned with high technology. So they found out a lot.
For Apes. Monkey are know that they eat meat. They have also a studie of how monkeys react on cooked food in comparison to raw food. I think they more liked the cooked food. The parameters and condition , the circumstances are very important.
If you do a scinetific study you have five or more steps. idont remember all of this. Its like above all multilayered.
“…Particularly studying indigenous cultures still around today, as he says he does, is ridiculous. Most of them have been wiped off the face of the earth within the last few hundred years absolutely without a trace….”
It needs eyes on this. This people need help. If you can, support them. Interest on you local native people. Look how they suffer. Or look how other indegenous people are repressed and give them a voice. like surival international.
This people needs a voice otherwise we label them claim they are primitive. What mean they have to be like us. We cut their forest and feed them with our raw food. Its a a bit kidding. They usally get cloth education christian religion or have to work in unfair horrible conditions. start hunger cuase the animals destroy through the clear cuts in the forest extinguish.
Raise up your voice for this People! they need your eys open! They need your love! they need your voice! We can help the! we can support them ! We can honestly look at them without making bias on thier life and culture.
Or steal their culture religion and rituals for our well being , while they starve a hunger and extreme poverty.
“I couldn’t believe his “revelation” came from Weston Price’s book, as if this book is all that revelatory: all it tell us is that processed foods are terrible for us to eat.”
My opinion on Western Price is that he did for his time something amazing. I cant relate it if this is good or not. I wish that someone go on his trace and follow the people he reported in his book.
There was a girl from afghanistan they was on the national geographic cover, famous for hear light shining blue eyes. The reported go on a journey to find this woman again How she looks now, where time past and the war is over. They found her after a complex and multi layerd, multidimensional search. Its a bit more easy in our technology world. Still hard for us small people.
Western Price is a beginning. A clear sign. Its sad that this study isnt sofollowed over the years. The effect and sense of western Price is one thing Aktivator X which is Vitamin K2, It shows how essential fatsoluble vitamins are. Its somehow very simple done. Its has a effect and gives a understanding.And give concrete suggestions which were followed and help people getting better teath. So it works. Some say the western price foundation is something different shift away from western prices origin. what ever it still has a good effect to people his work and the foundation based on him.
It would be good to make the same research again. the language is also multilayerd and a bit complex.
****
thank you for your misunderstandings and bias i could explain somethings on this hope people understand more this complex multidimensional layers. not just simple this simple this. good bad, false right. a lot of views, a lot of diet, alot rights a lot false alote bads
alot goods
I personally belong to India family which is vegetarian from generation.Except the recent modern people,i personally know people living on simplly on farm…which requires a lot of work …living long vaery healthy lives through late 80′s or early 90′s. You can find lot of vegetarian long living people in Kerala in india…the state least effected by modern life .Also, most of all vegetarian people in india live in much hotter climate. I personally think when you decide to be vegetarian, its just not food, its your climate,your spirirual nergy…and strong healthy food from your farm…
Yes, I thought that Vitalis generalizing people in India to be unhealthy was very unwise.
Also I would like to mention the Bishnoi people, who are extremely earth friendly, and from all I have heard they thrive very well on a vegetarian diet.
Don’t they have the most type 2 diabetes somewhere in India in those that are vegetarian.
http://www.scgcorp.com/pdf/scg_written_11.pdf
I didn’t hear that, but as far as I know he pointed out that Indians are not the most healthiest people.
I knew this would come up.
The reason for Indians to have a high rate for diabetes is because many have started to eat a more Western diet.
Indians did not have diabetes before that, and also had a very low cancer rate and coronary hearth diseases.
A thought….
I know several vegans and vegetarians and there is no doubt that there is a lot of goodness behind it. Probably most of them fall in the category of seekers. Seekers for peace, balance and being natural, or is it maybe connection to nature? Being so lost as many are today with bambification (disney damaged) living in artificial societies they where brought up having a belief system that killing is wrong. This strong idea brings up a barrier emotionally or subconsciously against nature. For us growing up close to nature it is just obvious and natural to accept that nature is just a big magnificent beautiful field of slaughter! Just a thought, don’t kill me
Well, of course there is a lot of death in nature. Animals are eating up each other all the time.
But I don’t see anything natural in keeping domesticated animals prisoned so that we can slaughter them.
In a perfect world we would live close to nature and maybe hunt some game now and then. But it is just not possible.
We have to make the best out of today’s situation, and using up our resources to produce animal products is not very wise.
The most efficient way of producing food is not monoculture, it is permaculture. Especially with some animals in it just like a natural eco-system, chickens, pigs etc. Domesticated animals can be kept even happier then wild animals, less stress over food, territory, internal parasites, predators and so on. There are many old strains of interesting genetics within farm animals like pigs cows and chicken that are almost getting extinct. I see no evil in their existence, and hope they will be brought back to our food supply soon.
We don’t need a bunch of domesticated animals around our plants.
There doesn’t have to be monoculture, we can have organic farming with circulated crops and a mix of crops.
Yes, of course it is important to keep some races of domesticated animals and not let them get extinct, especially some older hardier races.
But that doesn’t mean we should have a high rate of animal production that takes up all our resources.
Some small scale farming yes, but as it is now, we have way too much animal production going on.
i’m a hindu, i’m a budhhist, i’m a jew and i’m none of these things too..i’m a vegan, i’m a carnivore, i’m a wild foodist and so are you…all i know is that i feel so much gratitude for all of the ‘experts’ opinions and years of research…i’ve met many of them over the years…I think they’re all living their own truth, I admire that…it seems to get touchy when we believe our beliefs and others challenge those…we’re all so very ignorant…especially the experts…i too am some what of an expert, having spent many years researching and all of these areas…I have resonated with some of what each speaker has spoken so far, and have also noticed blatant falsehoods(based on my and others research and experience) in each of their presentations…it’s not a black and white issue…I think this is only the beginning of the debate, and grateful it has been opened in this way…i’ve got a little homestead in the mountains..dairy goats, wild chicken eggs, superfoods, chinese tonic herbs, wild harvesting herbs/mushrooms,organic gardens and honeybees, springwater out back, no gmo’s or grocerystores for 8 years…feeling glad to have woken up from the mainstream way long ago…
“i’m a hindu, i’m a budhhist, i’m a jew and i’m none of these things too..i’m a vegan, i’m a carnivore, i’m a wild foodist and so are you…”
you’re also a sophist…
…not all the way through yet, but IMHO, i think it’s ridiculous to say we should eat meat, or DO ANYTHING, based on the fact that our ancestors did it. i’ve always found this the most illogical reasoning in the world.
our ancestors lived decades WAY less than us and with evolution comes a whole lot of changes. i listened to vitalis with an open mind, i really did, but i cannot find ANY sense whatsoever in what he says.
our ancestors lived decades WAY less
health is a multilayerd multidimensional thing
longivity and livespan is one thing. health is more than lifespan and longivity.
There are healthy fit happy earthfriendly people who life only thirty fourty years. And this is good. a giant tortoise live 177years a mammut tree much older. Stones are more older. It has a sense that we are not all living among hundret. Longivity and lifespan is only one focus of getting to health.
This a lot people miss here.
People died from totally different things before then today. While our development have saved us from much of the old problems we have today other problems killing us, such as heart disease, cancer and other new diseases like diabetes. These are probably related to our new types of foods we are eating today. So if we could adjust that we would have the best from both worlds.
… also, from what i’ve studied, our teeth have changed and evolved from cavemen, much more suited to vegetables than gnawing on meat, right?
I’m sorry, i just can’t get through Vitalis’ talk. He is lacking any science; he has no credentials at all. Everything he says is based on ‘we should do it b/c they used to do it hundreds of years ago.’ I wonder if he believes that we should also keep slaves and women as property and die young of consumption ?????
Maybe if you want to know you write him an email. Maybe he answers on your questions.
i suggest to listen to such triggering talks like daniel vitalis one. More with slowness and time. Stop and paus and repeat. Listen few seconds, stop the player. Think on the words you heard. If you are readygo on playing the talk.
If you need reapet passages of the talk.
To kevin thank you very much for this effort. I know maybe it would shut down the system. for daniel Vitalis Talk i wished to coment on the times. So 1.45 as example that everyone can have a direct link to his note. Its easier to finding out the context. also ithink it would nice if you point out something on the idian vegetarian Diet. Kevin do you read this. Maybe you can point something on the indian vegetarian diet in your blog. I wish you would have had a indian ayurvedic health expert. for my self there is to much white skins. Only one black skin and two woman out of over ten experts. Thats no gender equal neither minorite equal. And why not include a disabled health expert. Why not interview a disabled person who goes well on raw food. Thats would be awsome. Or some traditonal healer form the urban spaces.
I don’t know if your joking but people are of course selected cos of their credentials as individuals, not because of their race or sex…
I was having a hard time as well. Anytime someone says that’s the way we’ve been doing something I cringe. We are at a time in the world where we need to go of old outdated systems.
Congrats to Daniel Vitalis cutting through the misinfo, really enjoyable. However, he did indulge in one piece of misinfo…the over population myth. The fact is we could give everybody on this planet (man, woman & child) a 1/4 acre block of land & we would all fit into Austrailia with still half of Queensland remaining and of course the rest of world. We all live in cities, which gives the impression that we all live on top of each other.
Even if that’s only slightly true, it’s pretty impressive. That’s a good way to look at things.
I should have said even if it’s half true, I don’t mean to discount what you are saying I think it’s great. sorry about that.
Has anybody told you that Eat of the Great Dividing Range (about 100 miles inland of the Eastern Coast), Australia is dry/arid/dessert?
Still we do have a huge amount of our land given over to wheat/sheep and a smaller amount to beef (still range fed in Australia).
Population explosion is not just about land and it’s not just about the current number. The problem is about exponential growth (your 3% PA kind of thing). It’s about demand for water. Underground aquifers are being depleted the world over. In India the once fertile Ganges basin has had it water table fall over 100m in a decade of fossil fuel fertiliser farming practices. And Peak Oil is being us now.
In developed countries population goes into decline (artificially boosted through immigration for ‘economic’ reasons). The overpopulation problem is for developing nations who can’t control population (look the the harsh enforcement that China has engaged in to get a handle on it’s population and it’s still not a plateau stage). They also can’t feed themselves. It just doesn’t add up. Permaculture could feed the world, I believe. There are many vested interests in industrial type farming of staple crops (for processed food and feeding livestock) which actively resist good sense and equity in farming practices.
Daniel Vitalis is interesting to listen to but I think he is still mega searching…many of his comments remind me of swiss cheese. I wonder what he thinks of the fact that NO notable health institute incorporates meat in their nutritional healing…maybe he just misses the feel and taste of a juicy steak. I don’t. I like his knowledge of wild plants.
That was a great interview with Danial Vitalis. I am not sure I agree 100% however it was still interesting
Great info from both sides. I want to thank Daniel Vitalis for expressing his views on local foods gathered from our own environments where we live and being built by this
I can not say enough about the logic and practicality of what Daniel Vitalis has to say…..love what he presents!!
I very much agree with the views espoused by Vitalis.
I don’t believe it is less karmic to eat plants. Plants have feelings too and are sentients beings. Just because we humans have not figured out a way to communicate with them does not mean they are not sentient. Do vegans really think a carrot or potato likes to be plucked from the ground to die in our mouth… or on our cutting board?
I have been a vegetarian, a vegan and a raw foodist, and now I eat EVERYTHING because I find it to be a more balancing diet FOR ME. However when I eat, be it egg, chicken, fish or plant, I try to make sure to thank the being for its sacrifice. For us to remain alive, some being has to die.
I liked that on the first night, there was actually a debate. I would prefer a return of the debate- even though we are being spoiled with getting to hear these debates free. I’m being torn in all directions. Dr. Robert Young basically says our bodies were not meant to break down meat… Vitalis says basically if you don’t incorporate meat, you will be unhealthy and lacking in nutrients. I want my family and future children to be as healthy as they can be… the other day, I didn’t think meat played a role in that, especially that my immediate family is Blood type A neg, AB positive and B. There’s got to be some actual indication of our body health that should tell us if what we are consuming is good or bad for us!
The replay of Wolf and Vitalis did not stay up 48 hours? I was not able to catch it! Can’t pay your fees at this time. Bummer! Blessings and Balance, K
Hey Karen,
The calls are up for 24
. We put up Night 1 and 3 for longer because of some tech glitches.
Thanks for listening!
Kev
Ok, here’s an article that I tried to translate into English about vegan organic farming.
Enjoy:
“Livestock production is not needed – the potentials of vegan food farming
Animal based foods environmental problems has recently been featured in many contexts. On the other hand the consumption is justified by claiming that the Finnish climate conditions, however, is not well suited for the production of vegetarian food. Could it be true that the majority of Finland’s land area suitable only for grass and forage crops?
Vegan organic farming
Food production conditions are certainly different in Finland than in Central Europe. Vegetarian Food production – even totally vegan organic farming – is still feasible to us, and its potentials should be considered.
For example, currently mostly used for feed barley and oats could fit directly to our tables and through versatile processing. Valuable protein diet obtained from indigenous legumes and peas, field beans, industrial hemp and wholegrain cereals. For example, potatoes, root vegetables and herbs can be grown in Lapland, although the production efficiency of the north does not pull any match for the South of Finland.
Animal production in connection with livestock manure is often referred to, like the food chain could not survive without it at all. Animals do not themselves bind any atmospheric nitrogen, but get it from eating the plants. Human nutrition producing fields, fertilization can be used instead of animal manure such as clover, grass or other nitrogen fixation as well as wood ash. Additional nitrogen could also be bound into the earth with the help of farming legumes. (1)
Biological wastes (2) and human droppings could be composted to restore nutrient fields. That is, for example in China there’s a thousands of years of experience in the period. The essence of the Chinese field fertilization has been a subtle plant component utilization. (3)
Organic farming production cycle of grass can be used for biogas production. For example fumigation clover grass residues from fertilizer, the value of which is nitrogenous and better than grass. (4).
Vegan organic farming methods are also crop rotation, planting partners, year-round vegetation, symbiotic ecosystems and cover crops. In addition it’s good to maintain the local species of wild habitats, which operate to discourage pests as protective barriers. Wild trees, pine trees, fruit trees and berry bushes can be planted to create a favourable microclimate. (5)
Too much manure
In its current state, the manure in a specialist agricultural production is a problem rather than a valuable contributor to soil fertility. Animal facilities are not self-sufficient in feed grains. Farms for animal feed imports a lot of grains, soy bean and corn from elsewhere (6, 7), because there are too many animals per surface area. In particular, large animal farms do not have enough arable land to produce all the feed.
When the feed is imported from outside the farms, manure nutrient contained in the above fields of vegetation get too much nutrient easily. In this case, the problem is too much manure vs areas of fields to dump it in. The excess nutrients are washed into waterways. Manure is often affected by overproduction of animal spaces, in particular regional concentration.
Today, manure application limits the amount with legislation and agricultural support through agricultural and environmental authorities, advice and recommendations (9). Environmental conditions, however, allow to spread manure on fields more than is necessary, because the animal farms are not just other options to get rid of the manure. Finnish pig farms and large poultry houses are even the environmental laws of limits are too stringent, so they detach themselves from the agricultural economical support, so that they can continue to over fertilize their fields, for example like in the Netherlands. (10)
Forest land grazing is a rare tale
It has been argued that the vegetarian food advocates do not understand the role of animals in the food chain. Yet it is precisely the basic ecology of the food chain, which takes a large part of the energy content when the feed is to farm animals. (This means in other words that animal production is taking up the biggest part of energy consumption when the feed is fed to the animals instead of to humans directly.)
According to MTT’s research to produce a kilo of pork takes 25-38 times more energy than the meat contains. Plants grown in a certain amount of energy used in the cultivation of crops give back energy content to 2-6-times. (12) An exception to this is in Finland winter season greenhouse vegetable production, which requires a tremendous amount of energy (13).
Ruminant cattle are still less effective even compared to pigs to convert the energy content of feed to animal biomass (14). However, cattle are fed more dry feed compared to pigs. Concentrates feed is still more abundant for dairy cows, for example for high milk production requirements. (15, 16)
It is certainly possible to engage in animal economy, in which the animals – at its best indigenous species – diversify grazing of endangered culture biotope (17). In its current state and on such a huge scale intensive animal production with its outside grazing is not feasible. The cattle get out to graze only a couple of months in a year, and they graze on sown grass which does not bring any biodiversity.
What to do with the surplus farmland?
Four fifths of Finnish arable land produces animal feed (18). Plant based food production would take far less of Finland’s arable area. Excess fields may not be in favour of planted pine and birch, as their re-clearance is expensive. Also, the changing climate may be caused by scarcity of food can quickly become a shortage of spare arable land when needed.
The vacant arable lands that would come from decrease in animals feed production, should be afforested in favour of agroforestry techniques. Agri-environmental and climate impact is reduced effectively by planting at 15-meter intervals from north to south lanes to grow trees and shrubs that provide food, fertilizers and fuels. The remaining fields can continue to grow food or energy crops, such as reed canary grass or hemp (19). Reed canary grass should also increase with cereals as rotational crops, as it improves soil fertility (20).
Farming without fossil fuels
While fossil fuel resources are depleting, the amount of feed produced by area will decrease if the methods of conventional farming use will continue. There are no further reserves of land, the arable land area per capita, on the contrary decreases globally because of erosion, or irrigation and water scarcity. (21) Agriculture in its current trend can not continue, because we will not be able to feed all the people in the future.
The solution is to use the resort biointensive horticulture like vegan farming methods. The needed food for one man – and soil humus maintenance of the necessary organic ingredients – can produce an average yield level of about 3.6 acres per country. 60% of the land area used for grain and seed crops, root vegetables 30% and 10% of vegetable production. Artificial fertilizers should be replaced with compost where all the unusable parts of the plants are to be returned to the soil. Therefore, the majority of the area planted with seed plants, which produce much more carbon-rich biomass calories below. Coal or biomass, rather lignin rich biomass is essential for maintaining soil humus reserves. (22, 23, 24) for this purpose we should take advantage of the trees lignin rich oxalic grains (25).
Biointensive farming methods gives enough land for food production in the future for all people of the world, but also a part can be left to their natural state. Forestry can be combined with the growing use and natural areas so that the end result reminds the forest ecosystem. This is the easiest way to tropical conditions, but grove like forest gardens can also be created in the northern boreal zone. Maintained, berry and mushroom land can be cherished by hundreds of forest management forms and also be a part as one form of forestry. (26)
Lasse Nordlund’s own long time testing shows that five acres is enough land for food production in Northern Finland, for also the mushrooms and berries. This calculation is taken into account for reserve depletion. (27) In Sweden the calculation of the current methods of food production of an omnivore requires 23 acres and 15 acres land vegetarian. Vegans suffice 10 acres. (28) “
thank you for posting this lasse is awesome. he lives up north and realy interesting. But how would it look in few generations. How his children comealong with this vegan diet. There is another great vegan in suomi his name is ossi. he is a wild vegan. Keep it hidden
Selina are you from finnland. Then the games changes. So far i know Lasse eats a grain based diet. Just dont forget the finnish people are very special to rest of the world. What works for them wont easily works in the US. Us is so different. This big cooperations and whatever.
Yes, I am from Finland.
This is just one example of how vegan farming could be done sustainably.
Thankyou Kevin for bringing us yet another series that is truly searching – not just creating a dogma. It is really helping to take knowledge forward.
Eating raw food has given me incredible health benefits and I thank the plants for that! In fact I feel so excited when I see the fruits and vegeatables.. I feel like a child, so full of excitement!
i was very interested in the earlier conversation with Eric about plants being sentient. The research in that was done in The Secret LIfe of Plants was taken further by some people in the Damanhur community in Northern Italy. They attached the biofeedback machine to a synthesiser and found that the plants are sentient enough to play good music. At first it is muddled and then in a short time it is harmonius! A friend of mine who plays the fiddle requested to play a concert with the trees – and it was set up and she did. I was very moved to hear her account of the intertwining of herself and the music of the trees. They have made a CD of music. Some tracks are by the trees and others are by various vegetables. The implications are so far reaching! It is wonderful.
I do think that awareness, deep respect and thankfulness is due to all our relations. We are all interlinked, we are all part of the whole, not separate.
Thankyou everyone for these wonderful discussions!
Joy!
Lisa ;o)
thank you lisa for this very lovely words on the feeling of plants. I hope ill meet person like you in my following life. It would be a great honour. I would admire this.
Isnt’s there a middle road? Here are two extremists, one opts to solve the food/health problems of the world with technology and the other with getting our food wild from nature, not of which is very accessible to most people most of the time. Agricultural foods and pharmaceuticals were developped because there are not enough wild food for everyone and eventually there would be nothing left via extinction. The middle road would be to get more involved in permaculture and other technologies which do not hurt and disturb wild life habitat. It is a more optimistic, less black and white approach to our toxic world!
What a giving, patient person!!!
Simply because humans ate meat in the past – out of choice – doesn’t make it correct. Humans COULD have survived on plant matter, yet, for the same reasons we do today (because people enjoy the taste), they chose to eat meat. Read “Limited Wants, Unlimited Means,” for more information on this.
The Inuit hardly have a long life expectancy.
Contrary to Daniel’s arguments, there is a theory our brain grew due to being hunted.
I like how Daniel also claimed that the data vegetarians give is somehow biassed. Perhaps the archeological “evidence” he is sourcing has a meat-eating agenda, as meat production is a HUGE industry.
Some sources:
Neanderthals didn’t eat ALL or even MOSTLY meat:
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/12/27/neanderthal-grain-fruit-eaters.html
Humans may have been frugivores:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17111888/Science-Verifies-That-Humans-Are-Frugivores
Australopithecus was mostly vegetarian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus#Diet
Man evolving larger brains from being hunted, not the hunters:
http://www.physorg.com/news138462747.html
Vitalis makes a lot of claims that sound convincing only to people that want to justify their unhealthy and harmful habits.
Perhaps our ancestors had a much higher nutrient quality because they ate over 10,000 types of plants! Animals have little nutrients opposed to everything Vitalis claims.
Sounds like the animal source vitamin A Vitalis love is causing countless health issues:
“Excessive vitamin A consumption can lead to nausea, irritability, anorexia (reduced appetite), vomiting, blurry vision, headaches, hair loss, muscle and abdominal pain and weakness, drowsiness, and altered mental status. In chronic cases, hair loss, dry skin, drying of the mucous membranes, fever, insomnia, fatigue, weight loss, bone fractures, anemia, and diarrhea can all be evident on top of the symptoms associated with less serious toxicity.[35] Some of these symptoms are also common to acne treatment with Isotretinoin. Chronically high doses of vitamin A, and also pharmaceutical retinoids such as 13-cis retinoic acid, can produce the syndrome of pseudotumor cerebri.[36] This syndrome includes headache, blurring of vision and confusion, associated with increased intracerebral pressure. Symptoms begin to resolve when intake of the offending substance is stopped.[37]
An estimated 75% of people in developed nations may be ingesting more than the RDA for vitamin A on a regular basis[citation needed]. Chronic intake of 1500 RAE of preformed vitamin A may be associated with osteoporosis and hip fractures. This may be due to the fact that an excess of vitamin A can block the expression of certain proteins dependent on vitamin K to reduce the efficacy of vitamin D, but has not yet been proven.[38] High vitamin A intake has been associated with spontaneous bone fractures in animals. Cell culture studies have linked increased bone resorption and decreased bone formation with high intakes. This interaction may occur because vitamins A and D may compete for the same receptor and then interact with parathyroid hormone, which regulates calcium.[34] Indeed, a study by Forsmo et al. shows a correlation between low bone mineral density and too high intake of vitamin A.[39]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A#Toxicity
As for Omega 3, plants are the highest source of land-based omega three. But perhaps Vitalis believes such absurd theories like the Aquatic Ape Theory…
OMG, my step mum has ALL the symptoms of chronic excessive Vitamen A. She’s also getting serious bone issues at age 50 AND even though she eats meat at EVERY meal, she’s anemic! This is so crazy, I should show her dr. this because the dr. said to just keep eating more meat for the anemia.
I know a lot of animal product consumers who have these issues as well. They even said 75% of people (probably the amount of people eating a predominantly meat-based diet) are consuming too much vitamin A.
Humanure and compost would fertilize our “farms” or gardens as I would like to see. And natural bees would fertilize wild plants without the inherent exploitation Vitalis claims occurs in all farms. Vitalis is so ignorant….Simply because we don’t live in a vegan society now we should just give up according to him…
As for local meat production:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0803/opinions-energy-locavores-on-my-mind.html
Sounds like he must REALLY care about the environment…
Not everyone can eat wild food! Must not be ethical or ‘correct’!
ABout the only thing I’ve agreed with Vitalis on is that we’re overpopulated…
I respect Daniel as a teacher and I’m very impressed with his ability to articulate complex ideas in very clear and simple way. I have incorporated a lot of his ideas into my own health strategies including collecting wild spring water, experimenting with my own elixirs and many other ideas he’s recommended. But his reasons for not following a plant base diet are weak. I’m not convinced. I have to disagree with his conclusions and although it may be right for him I don’t think it applies across the board with all individuals.
David Wolfe has a good balance between the superfoods and super herbs and eating a full range of fruits, nuts, seeds, sprouts, seaweed and greens as well as collecting plants from the wild. I like his approach. And did I hear him correctly???… did he suggest smoking for longevity. Hummm. I’ll have to think about that one!
0:48:15 David Wolf:
“We started cooking meat for a reason… From a spiritual perspective you lower the Karma so you don’t get blasted from the energy directly from the animal”
On this point, Wolf clear has no idea what he is talking about. I’m not sure what’s going on an energetic level for him but the suggestion that the negative Karma of some event can be mitigated by burning flesh reflects his naivety. A comparison with the SS and cremating bodies to hide the war-crimes comes to mind. Karma is an aspect of mind and vibration and cooking is not going to purify the vibration of the animals suffering at time of death (which I’m told is the vibrational issue with animal flesh).
Daniel Vitalis is still in a cult, the cult of self-absorbed reformism. No zealot is more extreme than the reformed sinner. Where he got his fall from grace idea that there’s so mass perception that mankind used to be a herbivore and then ‘ate the forbidden fruit’ and became carnivore I have no idea at all. This guy is a total bore.
I’m sorry to say Vitalis is a marketeer like a couple of these experts have been. It was interesting to listen, but I found no credibility (was just story time). His belief that the planet can’t sustain itself without having animals for fertilizer. Does he really believe that all the corn and grain grown for animal feed is the result of manure? Has he not heard that nitrogen fertilizer is produced from nitrogen converted to ammonia?
I think you are correct Chuck. The internet has spawned the current era of the self appointed expert. I’ve noticed this trend in the spiritual area also, these guys (mostly North Americans white males) professing expertise in matters where they’re chief qualification is delusion and arrogance — but hey an audience is important right?!
It’s great to have the ivory towers of academia and all their attendant maintain of the status quo challenged, but who wants self–appointed wankers with an uninformed opinion in their place?
Ethics are not necessarily religion. This guy needs to do Philosophy 101 he’s full of crap. “Ethics have nothing to do with health or nutrition”. Okay if you want to believe that, Daniel, go ahead, but that’s religion not philosophy or science.
Dairy is not a large part of the Indian diet. It is not the enabler of vegetarianism. This guy just makes it up as he goes, what a wanker.
I have heard similar things. That while many Indians are lacto-ovo (leaning more toward ovo), that there are still a large population that practices veganism.
Even those who eat dairy (yougut is most common form followed by panir cheese I guess) wouldn’t eat it every meal or even every day.
As previously mentioned, I have read several books and articles that indicate that humans are almost exclusively herbivorous and only eat meat because it tastes good; not a good justification for killing other sentient beings. “Unlimited Wants, Unlimited Means,” “Edible Wild Plants,” even several more recent articles (i.e., just search archeological finds like “Neanderthals ate their veggies”; to debunk even the claim that the solely hunters weren’t even close) and there are numerous articles indicated that humans do not NEED meat, but CHOOSE it at the expense of their own health, the environment, and – of course – animals.