Thanks so much for listening to Jonny Bowden and Dr. Joel Fuhrman!
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Kev
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Loving the Jonny Bowden but i’m sure a lot of vegans are going to be upset, especially in light of his attack on Campbell.
Kevin, I love the question that you consistently ask: ‘How important really are scientific studies?’ Great great question….
i agree with you, very good question..sometimes anecdotal data is more accurate and helpful
Have you read ‘bad science’ (Ben Goldacre) or ‘Trck or Treatment -alternative medicine on trial’ Simon Singh and Edvard Ernst – fascinating look at how healthcare has evolved over time through the use of studies and really helps you to understand this process and its importance.
Jonny thinks that animal sources of B12 and Omega 3 are superior to plant sources, yet the very animal sources he is talking about got their B12 and Omega 3 from plant sources in the first place! I doubt he is recommending eating carnivores – lion steak anyone?
Right. Algae-based DHA is far superior to fish. He also mentioned “complete proteins”, which is a myth that was debunked a long time ago.
Since Johnny has never even tried a vegetarian diet he takes a hit to his credibility. There are so many holes in the info he’s given, that I’m left shaking my head.
I guess you have to include the “bad” experts in with the good.
Dr. Johnny , diet is only a very small reason to avoid killing animals, so don’t keep all your ideas in one basket.
I agree with you both here, and I find it interesting that most vegetarians and vegans once ate omnivorous diets but changed for various reasons, however most meat advocates seem to have never tried being vegetarian or vegan for an extended period.
Given also the addiction to foods such as meat, it would take a decent period off it to experience health and wellbeing without.
I am more inclined to hear someone who has personally tried diets with and without meat as they have more insight into both, combined of course with clinical and scientific knowledge.
Will Sally Fallon and Campbell be tomorrow’s? Thanks Kev!!!! Awesome work!
Jonny is another carnivore who loves to give good news about bad habits.
Hey Jonny, the only time you have a hard time converting plant sourced omega 3s is if your delta 6 desaturase enzyme isn’t working properly – and that doesn’t happen very often.
Jonny said that conversion fairly low, not everyone does it well.
From another site:
“So the body converts the short-chain ALA to the long-chain EPA and DHA. Unfortunately, this process is very inefficient, on the order of 5-10%. Ironically, the higher your intake of saturated fat, the more efficient this process is. But most people that are taking flax are very health-conscious and avoid saturated fat like the plague (that is a gross generalization, no source for that).”
“For instance, alcohol, diabetes, sugar, and aging all inhibit delta-6 desaturase, meaning that each of those items reduce the efficiency of the first step of converting ALA to EPA. Delta-5 desaturase is inhibited by EPA, meaning that the body works to slow down EPA production when EPA is high. High levels of omega-6 in the diet can also affect the conversions. There are likely other elements of lifestyle that inhibit the action of these desaturases.”
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2007/10/10/the-vaunted-flax-seed/
Johnny obviously missed the study which shows that vegan’s converted their O3′s better than omni’s. I wish Kevin had Dr. Michael Greyed on the show.
Have you got a link to the study. I would be interested to read it. Thanks.
http://www.pcrm.org/news/archive101115.html
I personally take DHA with my flax oil since I know that our polluted environment makes it harder for our bodies to do its job with 100% efficiency.
For our bodies to convert omega 3 properly, we need to reduce our intake of omega 6 oils, which most people are eating in excess.
Have to read the whole study – don’t really trust PCRM.
If you CHOOSE to eat animal foods you will look for any available data right or wrong to support your habit. Jonny believes animal foods should work for everybody because it seems to be working for him…. I wonder who writes his books ??
What is your thought on CLA suppliments?
There is NO SUCH THING as a humane way to murder animals.
agreed !!!
YES! Thanks for pointing that out, I hate when people make that point.
AS a point of discussion, “Is there a humane way to murder a plant?”
Plants don’t have minds, so they don’t feel pain. They are not sentient, but animals are. Animals have the same feelings as us, so it’s wrong to exploit them, even if we could achieve better health from that (which we can’t).
I have to disagree with you that plants don’t have minds and are not sentient beings. I practice a from of medicine that has shown me that they are as alive as you and me. Human beings are far from being the only “intelligent” life on the planet; I think the way our western “civilisation” has been carrying on for the last few hundred years amply demonstrates that our intelligence may be somewhat lacking!
Unforunately for you studies have shown that some plants ( I won’t generalize) are sentient!
You state that sentience, ability to feel pain, and having a mind(which you don’t define) are qualities exclusive to animals. I sincerely disagree. You furthur declare that animals have the SAME feelings as humans, which I think is an anthropomorphic overgeneralization. Your ethical premise of same feelings then leads to the moral judgement that it is wrong to exploit-or do you mean utilize(for nutrients)in ANY way-animals. Again I sincerely disagree and am not convinced that the premise leads to the conclusion.
Then you conclude that even if we can attain better health (which you state is not possible) it is subordinate to your ethical/moral belief. I hope you can respect that we do not all share the same beliefs.
Exactly. Did you guys know that plants are living beings and feel pain as well? Watch Sean Croxton (who will be on this debate at some point) on his video “Why should I be a vegetarian?” in response to many meat haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37a-C33v80
Oh didnt see ur comment here Kev before posting. It may be wrong but that’s what Sean says according to the book “The secret life of Plants” – interesting concept to consider anyway!
Even if plants do feel pain, you’re still killing 10X the amount of plants to feed animals we can pretty safely say KNOW they feel pain. So it still results in more harm!
True. I wrote about this on my blog here: http://blog.raw-living-food-success.com/2011/02/great-free-online-health-debate-starts.html
I agree, Joan, there’s no humane way to murder animals. Thanks for posting this. See Humane Myth http://www.humanemyth.org/
This is really frustrating. I think I would have preferred what you referred to as a ‘Jerry Springer’ type of debate. This has turned into just one more opportunity to listen to someone spout their viewpoint without any checks and balances in real time to bring a challenge or rather additional information to be addressed. I WANT to hear experts challenge each other directly – whether they are comfortable with that format or not.
So, I may continue to listen … but I do not consider this program ‘the great debate’ … though that may be what you originally desired. I think you had a great idea Kevin, perhaps some time in the future ‘experts’ will be willing to face each other and come out from behind their curtains.
Jensey, thanks for your thoughts here… This event was a VERY complicated thing to pull off. There were many moving pieces needed to make it the best possible. The original format as I’ve mentioned before was 5 nights with two 4 expert calls and 3 nights of one on one lectures.
I, like you, would have liked to hear all the experts debate, but as the organization came together we realized this was not going to happen the way we wanted it.
After listening to the individual calls, next to each other with specific questions, I truly feel that you get more information from the experts.
There also was a large group of people who wrote in saying that they didn’t like the debate format, so there are two sides to each story, I guess!
thanks for listening!
Kev
When they are able to talk individually the speakers can get more information out and speak more freely. I enjoyed the first talk between Cousens and Bowden but felt they may have been holding back with some of their comments so as not to offend the other party. But it was good to hear where they agreed on certain issues.
I agree, the talk between Joe and Gabriel didn’t really work because they didn’t really confront their differences. I think their cases were stated better on the individual calls, however, the problem with individual calls is that there is no counterargument against the claims that are made. It’s difficult to find an ideal format unless it’s done in the form of respectful debate with freedom to disagree.
“There is no counterargument against the claims that are made” – that is unfortunate. It would have been good to see if claims actual fact and not just opinion or personal beliefs.
I agree with Jensey! I would have preferred hearing the interaction and dialogue between the two. It would have been GREAT to hear each person having to answer questions of each other and not only from Kevin. Calling it “The Great Debate” and then just hearing interviews makes me wonder why they didn’t want to comply with an actual debate or dialogue or conversation.
I appreciate all the work that went into this though and I always enjoy hearing Fuhrman. All the while Bowden was talking, I just kept wishing that Fuhrman was interjecting.
Jonny Bowden is very realistic and knowledgeable. It’s the quality of the food not whether it’s vegan or meat.
Family Farms!!!
Eating humans? I still find it quite laughable to kill any being needlessly “humane” as Bowden does…
What about bee pollen and/or royal jelly being complete proteins? And being full of other minerals and vitamins.
he is going for the BIG issues that the SAD issues need to deal with, and minimize the inflammatory issues, but is extremely strong about the need for some animal protein…
he makes a good point for the variety of physical or metabolic types having different requirements, and for attacking overuse of sugars and grains.
but he doesn’t look at the horror of factory farming of cows?
very articulated, professional and informed, whether i agree or disagree
good points:
1- separating the ethical from data
2- pointing out that both communities, the vegan or meat eaters may have habits ranging from poor nutrition to rich nutrients diets
How does Johnny see feeding billions of people?
Wasting pastures and pastures…
Factory farms are essentially a “necessity” from peoples’ desire to eat meat.
Or maybe Factory farms exist due to people’s desire to make money @ any cost. Let’s be clear on (true motivation).
The money being made is made from the people DEMANDING the product. No demand means the supply would whither away. Everyone eating meat is culpable.
This guy is supposed to be a nutritionist. Umm, last time I looked, a perfect protein contains all 9 essential amino acids. Quinoa has all essential amino acids – and we don’t need grains???
The “complete protein/ perfect protein” idea is outdated. Scientists now know that we don’t need to eat all the essential amino acids at once – not in a single food, or a single meal, or a single day. As long as we eat a varied range of foods that collectively provide us with the essential amino acids we are fine. Our body breaks down the protein from our food into amino acids; it keeps a pool of amino acids on hand, and then draws what it needs from this pool to build human protein.
Quinoa isn’t a grain and it is included in Dr Jonny’s book 150 Healthiest foods on Earth.
Quinoa is not a grain. It is a seed. That’s one reason it has no gluten.
Joan quinoa is not a grain, it’s a seed. It is used as a grain and substitute of grains but is actually a seed.
please make a interview with ramiel nagel, from curetoothdecay.com
Jonny Bowden, have interested views
i think we have to face on healer who are more on the groundand rooted in their healing ways.
this superknowledge is an experimenting, it wont work ever. humans are mutating all the time so its possible that some wonders are not be explained by called experts, we have to go back to the ground with sorrow and stealth
kevin please get maybe ramiel nagel on a interview. if possible. maybe a single one. i think it would be realy intersting. He has writtenc a good work which needs more feedback maybe?!
thank you for the information about ramiel nagel
there is another person who writes about about tooth health and raw food in general:
tonya zavasta
http://www.beautifulonraw.com
A carnivore who cares about animal welfare?? Am I the only one who thinks this makes absolutely no sense and is a load of
$^(!@#$?
North American Natives did thank the animals for giving up their lives so they could live – and they didn’t have a choice. The same with the kosher killing or animals – ORIGINALLY. The slaughterers were supposed to look the animal in the eye and ask forgiveness.
None of that happens today and people have a choice today – both healthwise, ecology-wise and ethically and morally.
Jonny Bowder is full of excuses, the same excuses you always hear carnivores spouting.
That would be omnivore. Humans are not carnivores.
Omnivore is the politically correct term for meat eaters who also may include fruits and veggies. Therefore, I stand by my term “carnivore” – a meat eater.
So what is your definition of an animal?
Bowden is not a carnivore, but an omnivore.
Joan I guess you’re not coming to my house for dinner tonight.
Grilled local lamb and asparagus!
I guess you won’t be coming to our house for dinner 40 years from now…
Dr. Milton Mills gives a wonderful lecture to back up the position that humans are actually “committed herbivores” with an omnivorous “habit.” Even cows can be conditioned to crave animal products (and heaven knows that’s what they’re fed in CAFOs) but this in no way means cows are designed to thrive on meat. Dr. Mills gives bears as an example of true omnivores. It’s an interesting talk; I highly recommend it. And think about this – why should humans be the only species that succumbs to unhealthy food habits and cravings? Every pet owner knows their pets are just as susceptible to developing “bad eating habits” as humans. That’s why “just listen to your body,” is a bit weak in terms of general advice.
How bout some real anthropological citations on that? Most anthropologists agree that human anatomy and physiology is largely UNIQUE among all creatures, and it is scientifically inaccurate to liken us to bears, pigs, wolves, cows, deer, gorillas, or any other mammal, since we are significantly different from all of these.
Even the Veg Resource Group says that the argument that humans are herbivores/frugivores is false.
How about this anthropological study:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30813FB3F5D12728DDDAC0994DD405B898BF1D3&scp=1&sq=Teeth+Show+Fruit+Was+The+Staple&st=p
But maybe the Veg Resource Group might have something to say about that…
What about quinoa?
Thanks for your response Kevin! My whinging aside … you are dong great stuff … want to be sure I say that. I’m disappointed in the experts for caving … cudos to you for carrying on.
And by the way, I DO appreciate hearing Jonny Bowden in an interview … he’s a hoot and has a great delivery and humor … I’ve never heard him before. Big thanks for the exposure.
As Bowden mentioned at the start we need to concentrate on nutrition – this is a health debate and shouldn’t be confused with someone’s idealogical point of view.
Precisely…And there is still no health reason anyone requires animal products. Both speakers from the first two talks who have been proponents of animal product consumption have pretty much been liars (to put it nicely). Bowden claims we cannot get Carnosine and Carnitine except from meat. COMPLETELY untrue! Carnitine in found in plant sources, and Carnosine is created from essential and non-essential amino acids found readily in plant products. Even Bowden’s critique of The China Study was erroneous and people here have pointed out…
Finally, someone who makes sense and who actually knows his nutritional biochemistry! Thank you Joel Furhman.
He probably understands the difference between omnivore and carnivore also.
Perhaps Fuhrman needs to brush up on cholesterol because he doesn’t seem to understand it very well.
A few quick comments:
1. Neither Animal or Plants synthesize B-12. Vitamin B-12 is synthesized by bacteria.
2. The Institute of Medicine recommends 1.1-1.6 grams of ALA per day, which can be easily obtained from a whole-food, plant based diet. The human body converts ALA to EPA & DHA. To say, that this conversion is inadequate or not optimal is speculation. This has not been established scientifically. Hence, the IOM’s recommendation.
3. Instead of arguing over epidemiological studies we should focus on randomized clinic trials. A whole food, plant-based diet is the only diet that has been shown to reverse atherosclerosis, which causes heart disease (the leading cause of death in the US) and stroke. Dean Ornish published this data in the 1990s.
4. Lastly, Jonny Bowden is incorrect in saying that the Seventh Day Adventist are the only long lived population that ate a plant based diet. If you look beyond people’s opinion and to the literature, the traditional Okinawan Diet was based upon unrefined starches (85% total kcals), particularly sweet potatoes. Less than 4% of their kcals came from meat, fish, eggs, and dairy.
Willcox, BJ, et al. Caloric Restriction, the Traditional Okinawan Diet, & Healthy Aging. Ann. NY Acad Sci. 2007
Gavin Patrick Moloney
M.S. Nutrition 2011
Bastyr University
Well said.
Nicely put!
He talks like there is no protein in plant foods. Also, the short life span of plants would preclude the accumulation of toxins and the production of diseases that are found in animals, some of which are not evident at the time of eating them.
i’m really, really enjoying listening Dr. Joel Furhman
i would like to know his opinion of cooked or raw
He talked about it – you must have missed it.
Hmmmm, I felt bad that Jonny had to bash Colin Campbell to try and make a point. It seems he bashed rather than gave any scientific study as to why eating meat was better for you. Mercola said that he did not like anyone telling anybody that they should be on a specific diet while he ended saying that everyone should eat animal foods. Can’t have good health without it. That simply is not true.
I really, really appreciated Dr. Fuhrman’s approach. Solid, gave his points in a non insulting way. He has so many studies and clinical applications behind him. His confidence just oozed. I felt he was “fair and balanced!” LOL Nice job, Dr.!
I agree and understand all Dr. Fuhrman says except what about all the experts saying our food does not have the nutrient content needed today because of soil depletion.
That’s right unless you are getting your vegetables from an organic farm that that has been in existence for several years to give time to replenish the nutrients in the soil.
How can the animals we are eating be getting everything they need with plant based foods and not humans ? Cows, gorillas etc, they are all non meat eating animals with big bones and strong muscles, how can they work pretty well without meat ??
Well, for one thing, cows have four stomachs and ruminate their food. And I’m not advocating eating meat. I’m just saying you and I aren’t cows. I don’t see how it’s fair to say, “They can do it, why can’t we?” Apples to apples, right? As for apes, maybe that is a fairer comparison, I don’t know.
Because they are herbivores not omnivores.
Also they can digest Fibre
Thanks again Kev for a great evening of exciting and revealing information.
Loved both speakers — learned a lot
Mr. Bowden is a graduate of an under the radar online medical degree type school. If he was a graduate of a real medical school like Bastry or John Hopkins etc. perhaps he would of discussed real credible researched clinical medical experienced tested information like Dr Counsens and Dr Joel Fuhrman. He may however be qualified to be speak about psychology i.e depression etc if he indeed graduated from a real board certified school.
What about Quinoa or Buckwheat which are not true grains?
No Jessieann. Quinoa and Buckwheat are seeds not grains. They are used as grains but they actually seeds.
The reference by Jonny that somehow Colin Campbell had and agenda or a bias to promote a plant based diet, I fail to understand. He grew up on a dairy farm, and ate animal products into his 40′s or so, and made his own personal dietary changes based on the research he was doing I can’t see that he has a personal or agenda or anything to gain by promoting a whole foods, plant based diet. Having read The China Study, it seems to me that his only agenda is to improve the health of Americans.
I also really appreciated Dr. Fuhrmans approach as straight forward, factual and clear cut reasons for what he was presenting without having to tear down anyone else to do it.
I believe that when you have to tear someone down when they are not there to defend themselves is putting yourself on shaky ground. Jonny must feel he is on shaky ground if he has to use such tactics.
What is Jonny’s personal agenda against The China Study??
He did seem unsure about making those comments at first and if it was appropriate on the call and Kevin encouraged him to continue with how he felt about the research…or so it seemed to me
what about hypothyroidism and cruciferous?
You really have to be eating high amounts of cruciferous plants to have them adversely effect your thyroid.
Dr. Fuhrman’s presentation is one of the best and most balanced of all that I have heard so far. Thank you.
I would like to know what Dr Fuhrman made of two of Jonny Bowden’s points.
1) The new harvard study which has (according to Bowden) been the first serious study to differentiate between the effects of eating a little good quality meat with lots of veg compared to eating a lot of processed meat and found no negative cnsequences of eating some good quality meat.
2) That excess vitamin D is not a problem and that this opinion has come from ‘bad science’ newspaper articles
Was struck by the comment about increased risk of hemorrhagic stroke being caused by increased salt intake. I was under the impression that it was likely caused by the wrong fat content of the cell walls, hypothesized that too much omega 3 and not enough Saturated fats equal weak cells?
What is Jonny’s personal agenda against The China Study??
confusion,
there is a book the china study and there is the original china study which has got about fourthousand pages.
Johnny just explains that cambells version of the china study is a personal view. This is not the original china study.
Campbell definitely has an agenda. He ignores correlations that don’t fit with his vegan lifestyle.
He became a vegan AFTER he went to China and did the study
Sue has been trolling her meat agenda here for awhile…
How can the animals we are eating be getting everything they need with plant based foods and not humans ? Cows, gorillas etc, they are all non meat eating animals with big bones and strong muscles, how can they work pretty well without meat ??
Gorrillas eat bugs and insect, and that is a mojor impact. Some apes even eat other apes or small mamals. The varriety of apes is very wide. This is a myth and a romantic picture
To cows. They have a view more stomaches and other organs. The plant food can ferment.
I think its also the climate. In some areas you need essential nutrients from animal source if you wanna live.
i’d like to hear what Dr Fuhrman thinks about the study Mr Bowden suggests in the Harvard study on people that eat CLEAN meat (I know I know, Im vegetarian too!). Just curious though bc vegetarian/vegan generally site studies that meat eaters fare rather poorly. But, are they considering fast food and the typical SAD.
Thats why Id prefer an actual debate, or if not possible, have dr Fuhrman comment on that particular study – Its a key point at least regarding nutrition. (I’ll continue to remain vegetarain no matter what
But I am curiuos bc I have many clients that do eat meat. Thank you.
If you’re interested in one man’s experiment with “clean” dairy (Grade A raw organic milk), visit Bill Minnick’s website, http://www.EndCancerNow.org and look at his free pdf file. He used his own (cancer survivor’s) body to experiment with one food at a time to see which foods, for himself at least, were the killers and which were okay. After 2 yrs with no dairy, a relative persuaded him to introduce top quality dairy back into his diet. He did so, his prostate cancer quickly began growing again and more. He’s a true believer in Campbell’s work, having demonstrated the “light switch” effect with his own body.
I agree with this as Dr. Fuhrman seem to only base his argument that Animal products is bad based on reasearch on cancer/heart desease (seems an awfull lot like he is quoting the china study) in which there has not been any investigations to the quality of all the foods that are eaten including Animal Products as was stated by Bowden.
It seems that there are too many people on this board that are not taking into fact what was mention previously by Bowden
Yep well spotted:
Here is the research study referenced by Jonny Bowden:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2010-releases/processed-meats-unprocessed-heart-disease-diabetes.html
One of the more eye-opening parts of yesterdays excellent debate.
Exactly. I would really like to hear Dr Fuhrman’s response to that.
Probably the same way he refutes the health and lognevity claims of proponents of Inuit lifestyles and diets…
I really enjoyed Dr. Fuhrman’s lecture. His info was so clear and well spoken that I feel like I can recommend it to family and friends.
I rarely recommend all the lectures I listen too, because it is obvious that a lot of the info is not well researched. Dr. Fuhrman’s was packed with good info!
Thanks for askng him about the salt too. That was great info @ strokes/blood pressure.
Thanks Renegades!
Although I do very much like Dr. Counsen he is a psychiatrist so should he be discussing nutrition? Yes, because he has studied it and clinically applied his knowledge to see what works and what does not work. I thought Jonny Bowen approach was the most sensible. I am a retired Critical Care R.N. and a Natural Health Educator. I have worked with Ann Wigmore and have eaten raw high nutrient dense food at her clinic. I was on her staff for a year. Soon I required only a few hours of sleep and had lots of energy. However after about 2 months my pain threshold dropped to almost 0. I began to feel what the other staff members and some of her long term students, called the “tingles” I could not tolerate being in the sun. When I went swimming it felt as tho I were diving into an electrical field. Dr. Wigmore (all of her degrees were honorary) would not address these issues. I wrote to Dr. Counsens and he told me I was dangerously over alkaline. to eat a hamburger if I had too. I do best with 85% vegetable, 5% buckwheat/Quinoa,10%grass fed, free range animal products.
Like some others I would actually like to hear a real debate. I thought the first debate was far too polite and Cousens and Mercola loosened up more and let their true feelings show when interviewed one on one. That’s too bad. Let it go guys, yes be respectful but be brutally honest. These people will say things one on one that they won’t say to each other which is cowardly and dishonest, too bad.
I’ve been vegan for 8 years mostly for ethical reasons so can’t see myself going back to eating meat. But I could see some small amounts of wild or grass fed meat being ok or even beneficial, again not for me, just trying to see both sides.
In terms of getting enough protein. I can think of 6 vegan foods that are complete proteins: hempseeds, goji berries, chia seeds, quinoa, bee pollen and algae’s. Not that you even have to be concerned with getting complete proteins, but just in case you were concerned they are there.
Also in terms of converting ALA to DHA and EPA, according to Udo Erasmus, the world authority on fats by most people(check out his book Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill) he says that most people have no problem converting ALA to DHA and EPA. And for those who do their is aglae oil (http://www.v-pure.com/) which is where fish get it from anyway and it’s toxic free, unlike fish oil.http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/fish_oil.htm
Thanks for doing this Kev, I’ve wanted to hear(actually see) something like this for some time. I’m looking forward to the rest, and would love to hear some real debate.
Chris
Thank you Kevin for this wonderful debate that you have set up. Lots of great information!
Bowden and Fuhrman agree on everything or talk about the exact same benefits of vegies, less grain etc. The only difference is Bowden recognises the nutritients in meat whereas Fuhrman doesn’t.
You could also say, Fuhrman recognizes the toxicity in meat and Bowden doesn’t lol.
Bowden recommends grass fed so he recognizes it.
Gotta agree with Kasey on this one…
Loren Cordain author of The Paleo Diet talks about IGF-1 and how it is increased with a diet that encourages high insulin levels caused by a diet too high in carbohydrates:
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=d_lVB6HZJ4YC&pg=PA80&dq=IGF1+decreased+on+paleo+diet&hl=en&ei=acpQTdPLJYbuvQPP-LGJCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thanks. I became more curious about this after hearing the talk.
I admit I was already aware of Dr Fuhrman and have read 3 of his books. I am trying to listen with an open mind to others’ ideas and listened to what Jonny Bowden had to say. I agree on some points e.g. fructose especially high fructose corn syrup being damaging for you and you can be an unhealthy vegan/vegetarian. However he has not convinced me to start eating meat again. I have been vegetarian since the early 1990s and am doing ok. He could have to be a lot more convincing than what i heard tonight…
Excellent Dr.Fuhrman!!!! Wow – good choice Kevin! He and Dr. Cousens have the mostintelligent and comprehensive information for how to create balance in the body!!
I think all the speakers have intelligence even those that eat meat!! Some might say more intelligence because of the meat but it depends on which camp you follow.
“Some might say more intelligent because of the meat”… are you serious?! Where did you get thsi information from? I’d like to see the documentation that supports this statement please. Thanks!
I guess it’s all in the B12 – haha
I guess it’s all in your artery clogged mind…
I mean Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. Cousens
I started late and have not yet heard Dr. Fuhrman but I am really enjoying Dr. Bowden – I love his passion and he really knows what he is talking about. Thank you Dr. Bowden, thank you Kevin!!
I love the idea…. GOMBS Greens, onions, mushrooms, seeds, beans… fabulous. Asparagus, red onion, portobello mushrooms, sesame seeds, black beans. Yummy . Gets you thinking. I might even try an avocado, pistacio, banana, or papaya smoothie? see what that tastes like
Gotta be creative and have fun too!
I took notes on this too! lol
Thanks Kevin, I think these talks are wonderful! We don’t have to agree with anyone, but can listen with an open heart to see where each are coming from and accept whatever they say as “their” opinion, based on their beliefs and experience. If it resonates with us great! If not, we don’t follow, that’s all. Love hearing Dr. Fuhrman speak, I’ve been a fan for awhile. ox
No research has been done on living sprouted grains, which I have eaten so much of in the last two years, yet with no problems. I wish grains were not always generalized among given such a bad name, for most people are talking about unsprouted cooked grains.
I have heard a lot of good about mushrooms as Fuhrman stated, yet I have also read about a LOT of bad/ill effects from mushrooms and the growth of cancer cells. So, please do your own research before you make them a part of your diet.
I’m sorry folks, I’m surprised none of you fans of The China Study picked up on this — sorry, I CANNOT let slide — which started with his back-handed compliment of Dr. Campbell (e.g. “sweet and uniformed”). Here’s Bowden’s remarks (in context) and my comments at the bottom:
[DR. BOWDEN]
“Colin Campbell, a very SWEET man and EXTREMELY mis-informed … Something a lot of people don’t really know … His book, ‘The China Study’, is NOT the actual China Study … the actual China Study is some like a 1,900-page (chuckles) or 900-page volume that is actually called … let me look up the exact title of it for you). It is, ‘Diet, Lifestyle and Mortality in China: A study of Characterists of the 65 Chinese Countries (sic).’ The lead author is J. Chen , C-H-E-N. You can look it up anywhere. It’s an ENORMOUS volume. CAMPBELL’S book is about his CONCLUSIONS of that data. It’s not the actual study. Those who have actually LOOKED at the data in the study, have very different conclusions from Campbell. You know it’s possible to skew data in a lot of different ways, if you’re trying to make a point. You cherry-pick the evidence that makes the case you want to make, you leave out the stuff that doesn’t, and that’s kind of what Campbell did in his little volume, The China Study, which is basically his interpretation of what this means … What he did was take his agenda and his rabid veganism and extracted from the ACTUAL China Study Which is like a said, ‘Diet, Lifestyle and Mortality in China: A study of Characterists of the 65 Chinese Countries’ (sic,again) by Chen and extracted from that the data that supported his theory. I think that those who looked at the ACTUAL study and compared it to his conclusions, have found his conclusion quite biased and quite wanting.”
[MY COMMENTS]
The “Actual” China Study is entitled, “Diet, life-style and mortality in China. A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties.” (that’s *counties*, not countries); Authors are Chen J., Campbell TC, Li J, et al. (894 pages).
And BTW, Dr. Chen was the Deputy Director of the the Deputy Director for China’s most significant gov’t diet and health research laboratory and Dr. Campbell was the overall Project Director for that 894 page “Actual” China Study. I’m thinking his “little book” distilled his “actual” study into a form that that was more digestible to consumers, like you and me (and him).
Maybe Dr. Bowden should join those who (in his own words), “looked at the actual study” before (again, in is own words) “cherry-picking the evidence”. Because in this case, Dr. Bowden, with all due respect, you couldn’t even grab the low hanging fruit!
Exactly! Agree. I picked up in that, and I just finished reading his masterpiece, The China Study. He was THE man!
It seems you have an excellent understanding of the original china study, can you please refute Bowden’s specific claims:
i.e. Casein was correlated with higher incidence of Cancer but Whey was correlated with a lower incidence of cancer
Also Bowden claims that some of the data in the China Study pointed to a lower risk of cancer!!
Are these claims correct? If they are it indeed appears that Campbell cherry picked his evidence.
I have found no evidence at all to suggest that T Colin Campbell was the overall project director for the original China Study.
The amazon and wikipedia entries suggest that T Colin Campbell was only the director for the Cornell University study which spawned his book ‘The China Study’.
Please can you give a reference for your claim?
James,
>> “The China Study” pg 72: “…We assembled a world-class scientific team. There was Dr. Chen, who was the deputy director of the most significant government diet and health research laboratory … I rounded out the team as the Project Director.”
>> And on his Wikipedia page, “… He was one of the lead scientists in the 1980s of the China-Oxford Cornell study on diet and disease (known as the China Project), set up in 1983 by Cornell University, the University of Oxford, and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine to explore the relationship between nutrition and cancer, heart and metabolic diseases.”
>> If you’re interested in a 12-page summary (to wet your appetite) http://www.nutrientrich.com/nutrition-facts-from-the-china-study .
Please google Raw Food Sos.com and see how a former vegan Denise Minger totally shred China Study to pieces.
Former vegans tend to be some of the most illogical and ignorant people there can be…I’m a strong proponent of the “they weren’t doing it properly” if it didn’t work for them and most of them are too lazy to even try to remedy what was wrong and instead blame everything but themselves!
I think Jonny Bowden missed the fact that most fish today are highly overfished. If we continue consuming fish the way we do there is not going to be any fish omega3′s the get in the future.
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/oceans/overfishing/
Also I think it is quite elitistic to think that everyone should be able to eat organic grass feed meat. I don’t think it is possible for the major part of the worlds population.
Totaly agree with this. The over-fishing is extremely worrying….
You can get zinc from plant based sources according to this article:
http://www.suite101.com/content/natural-sources-of-zinc-a145393
Very interesting talks so far, i just wondered when it came to diet and excercise whether people think that a non meat diet will give you adequate protein when strength training and if people think this is possible, which sources of non meat foods are best for a high protein content?
You should search out vegan or vegetarian blogs where the person is strength training and get ideas from them. They would probably have lots of good information.
We’re by design frugivores. Everything in our anatomy points to this, becuase we choose to eat meat doesn’t make us omnivores. The length of time we have eaten meat is a drop in the ocean compared to our evolution frugivores. You will not achieve optimal health by eating the same amount of meat everyone does these days, all I see is overweight smelly people with skin problems risking cancer and heart disease and stroke not even half way through their life expectancy. Most people’s diets consist of a good ~25% worth of meat with the other ~30 percent being wheat based. This balance is so totally wrong and I have the health benefits that can be seen to be believed to prove it after changing from what some people would consider healthy diet!
No we are not frugivores no matter how much you want to believe it.
I also enjoyed this talk very much, I have started to get a larger view on how to personally eat more healthy
But all this talk made me realize one thing, we westerners are very lost when it comes to diet. I think the main reason is because we are so isolated from nature and from what is natural that we have nothing else to rely on but science, which makes diet very very complicated.
I wish we could get more information from nature directly and to get our selves more connected, that is something I think we would benefit a lot from in the future.
Kevin he mentions soy as a good a source of amino acids.. I myself get organic soybeans and with all this debate on soy could you please ask what his opinion of that is..I can draw the conclusion he advises soy since he mentions it..
Could just have easily gotten the info from Johnny Bowden from local GP. Plenty of socalled experts expounding the so called benefits of meat eating processed and unprocessed. Not even going to bother with Fuhrman -
Kevin I keep getting an error when it comes to playing the file, it just says oh noes an error has occurred and it will not play. it worked fine last night
Until they found scientific proof that our ancestries there were vegetarians, I think there is no reason for arguing about eating or not eating meat. If the reason for debating is the idea that we shouldn’t eat any kind of meat and meat products because we pollute our soil, seas, drinking water and air and all that is coming back to as via the food chain (higher concentration to animal fat) this is still not a good way to ask (scare) human kind to change diet habits. Again if we debating about meet efficiency to feed all human kind, this in is not the right way to force people stop eating meet and meet products. I can’t imagine that Mother Nature made lions eat and desire meat and then start making them ill and terminate them earlier than normal life circle. So humans digest effective, crave and hunt meat for long time ago. Specific 2.5 million years for homo hails or for those arguing about any connection with hails, 130 thousand years since the existence of Homo sapiens. It is clear for me that Mother Nature intent is not to make us ill and degenerate us for a diet habit that he gave to us for the first place. Only human beings can do and thought something so aberrant and until now we don’t lose an opportunity to prove it every day. From my point of view we should first try to find a way of living without destroying ‘’our’’ environment. Second. Fair distribution to nature resources and goods . Then we should found a way for determine how much or how less of meet or plant eating. Metabolic typing for sure is in the right tracks.
” “If the reason for debating is the idea that we shouldn’t eat any kind of meat and meat products because we pollute our soil, seas, drinking water and air and all that is coming back to as via the food chain ” ”
Hmm just thought of something – do you think this referred to toxic factory farm animals polluting the earth not the Healthy animals who fertilize the soil with their feeces, and in death get absorbed into circle of life like all living things?
It is habilis of course!
Apologize.
it is a real shame that some speakers were not open to having a real “debate” because has anyone thought that “debate” does NOT have to equal Jerry Springer? ( nothing against him or even the concept of that type of show… ) …
Let’s not make it black or white, there are all sorts of shades of grey… Debates can be civilised ( I do believe debating is an English passtime/tradition and they are nothing if not civilised…), many debates take place which are civilised, let’s give these people a little more credit please!!
Also, who is afraid of “losing” in a civilised debate? Surely only those who are not confident in their materials…
If it WAS a debate then at least the speakers ( instead of the posters, as it is being now ) will get to refute the others’ claims ON THE SPOT ( when it is their turn to speak.. ) and the information that was coming out would REALLY be more useful because it would be FULLER and more whole…
( vs being an infomercial for each speaker, where they just get to talk unchecked and quite possibly mislead many new-comers to the health scene…)
For example, from what i understand, it is quite likely that B12 is not something we need to get from food, it is something produced in our gut… Such a simple thing that he appears to not be aware of and/or ignoring… there are other things too that other posters have brought up such as about “complete proteins” that he talks about which is also outdated information…
This is not to discredit EVERTHING this guy says in any way, he brings up some good points, but certainly overall, the path he is suggesting and the information he presents is just more proof that “board certified” doesn’t necessarily mean anything apart from “board certified” and that the board is actually, as usual, quite behind the cutting edge…
I mean, he hasn’t even tried being vegetarian!!! How one can call ones-self a genuine health seeker or even aseeker in any sense and not even have tried being vegetarian is beyond me… ( and i do like my teachers to be real seekers… )
I don’t feel he can speak with enough wisdom, I am sorry about that and i am SORRY that there is no-one who knows better who can reply in a civilised but succinct manner on the spot to him, as they would do in a debate!!
That would be so helpful to your listeners, so your original idea was wonderful Kevin, I do believe it just needs some tweaking in terms of how it would be set up and what you would need to do to get people to agree to take part and then it could be an amazing, great event…
I do hope you don’t give up on that vision and that perhaps soon we can have a real debate…
Thanks for allowing me to express myself…
PS. I do hope that you will give Mr.Colin Campbell a chance to reply to the specific example that Mr. Bowden brought up…
There was no reason for him to try vegetarianism as he is healthy with the diet he is eating.
He would even be healthier and live longer on a vegetarian diet.
I found Jonny’s talk interesting, but he didn’t say anything about the toxins found even in grassfed animals that Cousens talked about yesterday.
As a holistic nutritionist myself and a Weston Price member, I loved what Jonny has to say. I believe this as well. Yet, I have a good friend who has rheumatoid arthritis and other friends who have been totally supported by changing to an almost all veggie diet.
I’m sure Sally Fallon will have similar things to say.
I feel like a shit for posting this comment. So negative! Kevin, I have SO MUCH appreciation for you for putting this together, and I’m sory I let my momentary disappointment come out when what I should have said was – Thanks
What Jonny Bowden says makes more sense to me. When I started looking into diet I thought it made sense to look at what people ate in the past before people got sick with our modern diseases. What Fuhrman says sounds like something no human did in history. I have never heard anyone say they people are addicted to meat. He makes it sound like in three hours time people have to have meat again because they are addicted. But in reality eating meat stabilizes your blood sugar because it digests so slowly and yes in maybe 5 hours it is time to eat again because that is how our bodies work because eventually we do get hungry again. As Jonny says keeping blood sugar stable is important for avoiding a whole bunch of problems and diseases including gaining weight. And actually I do crave vegetables. I thought many of the things Fuhrman were strange. He is also the first one I have heard say that even unprocessed salt is bad. I thought it was pretty well established in the natural healing world that high blood pressure really happens for other reasons other than salt intake. My own brother reduced his blood pressure by eating ground flax seed everyday. To say that salt is the reason is a very simple minded way of looking at it. Also when it comes to what is better for the planet…….the stripping of lands for the farming of grains etc. did more damage to the earth than eating meat. Read the “Vegetarian Myth”. It destroyed the habitats of animals and added to the destruction of have a planet with more green grasses and trees. Just a few points to ponder.
Animal agriculture destroys more. Bowden doesn’t know what he’s talking about because all amino acids are found in plants.
I wasn’t able to hear the Fuhrman talk. Did he say anything about b-12? Are the patches any good?
Love this. Food for thought is healthy too. Logically there can not be a one size fits all. There are just to many factors. Location where you live, body type race gender type of work you do, age,your water source, life style the season and many more. I know first hand that what we eat can harm or heal. I have seen it in my family my animals and even my plants. It’s hard to find and then afford good professional help. Things like this really help. My take away from this really dummied down is- Each meal eat lots of different colors lots of different things (ingredients) not lots of one thing. Whole foods if it grows that way eat it if not probably best to stay away. Any one know where I can find a pizza tree? Thought not oh well.
1) if you are unable to do debates, why not have some forum for submitting questions that someone can comb through and give you while interviewing??
2) i would LOVE someone to address this issue – they all keep talking about cancer rates rising over the last century or so, but isn’t that also due to extended life expectancy?
3) what do they feel about fruits? i would like to get a variety of ‘expert’ opinions on fruit b/c so much of it is very high glycemic, but it also has so many other benefits we need?????
4) also, would be nice to get a variety of ‘expert’ opinions on raw. most seem to be big proponents of cruciferous veggies, etc., but what do THEY think happens when we cook our kale. how much are we losing??
THANKS
Furman’s take was less theoretical and incredibly useful. Beautiful.
Really appreciate you putting this together. While I have enjoyed all the speakers so far, I really like Dr. Joel Fuhrman. I think he is on point and a very informative speaker without putting down any particular group of people. Health is always our choice to make or not. Live and Let Live.. Thanks for doing this.
First – let me say that I appreciate what Kevin and Anne Marie are doing with these series – this is GREAT.
Now that said…so far I’ve not heard anything that can be considered conclusive in my mind other than sugar is bad. One thing that bothers me most is all 4 speakers so far seem to say ‘anecdotal’ evidence is bad – then all they offer is anecdotal. The only one who started to break from that is Dr. Fuhrman. A lot of opinions – but I’m not convinced there is fact to back up.
Well Jonny what can I say other than you are right on the money.
Excellent and thank you!
It was refreshing to hear Jonny address the issue of quality and explain how studies comparing meat eaters to non-meat eaters are very flawed because they do not consider this. Typically meat eaters have a very unhealthy diet overall (Standard American Diet). This is what I was thinking when Dr. Cousens was listing off lots of these sorts of studies. I also appreciated his critique of the China Study. Here is a link to a intelligent young woman’s critique of the China Study.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
I totally agree with fresh is best and to stay away from processed anything. I would like to hear what someone has to say about humans eating animals the natural way…..without using a knife or gun to kill them (as that is not natural in nature). Animals who eat other animals do it this way (without knives or guns); they use their claws and teeth and eat the animal’s flesh as it’s dying or right after it has died. Since I sincerely doubt that a human being could ever be capable of this, does that not mean that we should not be eating animals?
Just a question about Vitamin D…..does one have to take it in the summer time when you’re getting lots of sun? I generally only take it in the winter time when I’m not getting that much sun.
As Kevin always advises
Test
Test
Test
Dear Dr. Fuhrman,
Thanks for your talk, it’s great to hear practical and intelligent advice from a fellow vegan.
I find it weird that the main listed qualification for Cousens is that he played football. Big Deal. He boasts that he has almost no body fat – this is not a health marker – it screams: imbalance! The pic posted shows that his prune-like face is a clear indicator that he may have too little fat in his diet. I don’t know, but such extreme low fat eaters usually have this kind of ‘prune’ look. As a speaker – he rambles so much to try to make a point.
Mercola concise in his responses. He has excellent credentials as well as a huge practice on which to learn. The metabolic typing offers a more broad spectrum view for lifestyle diets.
Overall, I liked the civility of both the speakers.
Personally, I don’t appreciate bringing in one’s spiritual beliefs around food in this venue. It’s not the place for it.
What’s with the use of the latest buzz word, “anti-aging”? Like, you guys don’t yet ‘get’ that we’re all aging and we’re all going to die. Using this type of buzz word by those of us considered “alternative” health care practitioners, perpetuates that “aging is “bad” and alludes to the illusion that aging can be prevented. Why not just refer to “supports healthy longevity” rather than that handy marketing lingo, “anti-aging”? It’s not how long we live, it’s how we live.
To allude to that Dr. C got cancer and he was a meat eater is outrageous! Shame on you Cousens!!! There is no culture of Vegans and there is a reason for this – vegans don’t easily reproduce.
Yet, it’s probably the truth. Vegans have a much lower rate of cancer than meat eaters do…
Great debate! I’m interested to hear more now about the low grain idea.
I would have preferred hearing these two have a dialogue. But I LOVED hearing Fuhrman. Bowden sounded a bit angry to me or something.
Thanks for putting this all together, Kevin!
Linda
I found Bowden arrogant and Fuhrman highly informative. Thank you
Carnitine DOES come from plant based sources. Bowden doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about.
Carnosine, again, can be created by the assembling of essential and non-essential amino acids – both of which found plentifully in plant sources.
I loved this debate, great work, your hard work to put this all together is greatly appreciated. I thought that Joel Fuhrman made a great point, food quality and he explained well that we need to look at the micro-nutrient richness in food. I am vegan and find it confusing with all information out there and trying to eat healthy is hard when fighting against the masses of ignorance and for Dr. Fuhrman to say any of these diets are great choices, only really look at the nutrients in the specific food. Food is so special to everyone, it is religious, personal, and it stirs happiness or sadness. Learning how to control and get the right quality nutrient dense food is just as important as following a religion.Great job. Glad to hear your thoughts. Thank you for the topics to ponder and learn from.
Dr. Joel Fuhrman is awesome! He sounds very knowledgeable. I love the term “nutritarian”. I’m now “vegan” for the animals sake and the planet and “nutritarian” for my health.
))
I agree! I learned WAY more than the misinformation that Dr. Bowden seemed to be spouting (please see my previous post).
Donna Gates was AWSOME and sweet to boot. There’s goota be something in those fermented foods. I agree with her on many points and learned a lot from her. I used to make lots of fermented foods when I wan on a Macro diet and then let it slide when I went Raw. Thanks for reminding me. And thanks Kevin for bringing it on.
Dr. Furhman said broccoli is almost 50% protein? Totally false.
He also said that meat has no anti-oxidants and no something else. Meat has alpha lipoic acid and conenzymeQ10 and Omega 3 fats, which are all powerful anti-oxidants.
No, he said he had a greater coloric:protein ratio to any animal product. Please relisten.
From the comments that I am reading until know all this knowledge that we hearing the last 3 days, I am afraid has little or no effect on anyone. The vegetarians clapping there hand so pleased from hearing Dr Fuhrman support there believes and way of living. From the other hand a smaller group of meat eaters trying to bring a balance with a more gentle way. From my point of view all this talking it was suppose to make us look things with a more spherical way. Maybe for many other people who are just hearing and not posting comments something is changing and they are ready for a second and a third thought about shifting to a more healthy diet accordingly to personal needs. I am a believer of the golden edge (1,618).Great opportunity for all to extent their knowledge. My appreciation to Kevin and to all people dedicated their time for exchanging knowledge with everyone.
Apologize on account for spelling mistakes.
Meat eaters being gentle? Tell that to the animals…
Furthermore, I have learned things from all the speakers, but still nothing warranting a diet change to something less healthy…
Just listened to Robert O Young – Wow he makes so much sense – interesting about the pineapple and bananas and hadn’t made the connection when on raw between the high sugar fruits and drawing down on the alkalinity of the body. Makes me wonder about certain things I experienced on raw. Somewhat confused about fermented food now – because he made so much sense but then so did Donna
First of all, thanks Kevin for putting this show together! Like some, I do wish Dr. Fuhrman and Bowden could have had some time to actually debate each other. I found Dr. Fuhrman to be particularly well-informed and inspirational. I am a huge fan of his and find that what he says is backed up by science. He is making a big difference in health and longevity for so many people. Bravo. Also, Dr. Fuhrman says it is okay to have some meat “as a flavoring or as a condiment” to your veggies. He doesn’t say NEVER have any meat.
WOW 2 guys at the top of their game!! Wonderful information from both. But I think Dr Fuhrman was a polar opposite of ‘DR’Young on the salt issue. One flaming for and one against! FLAMING!! !
If you eat lots of acidifying foods that break loose calcium and sodium all day long you might need some Sodium replacement and heavy perspiring can leach your base also. Hydrochloric acid uses a bunch(sodium) too if you aren’t taking it in where does the body get it to use up? Soft tissues DUH! Oh my aching joints! Hey gimme back my salt!
Why do I get the feeling that Dr Fuhrman has a vested interest in selling his pricey salt replacemant flavorizers though? hmmm…
Other than that he has my vote for sound nutritional reasons why limiting meat (almost eliminating it)is a smart move… working on it and thanks to the good Dr Fuhrman doing it sooner than later… not gonna hold that salt thing against him… lol
why do I sound so sure on the salt? I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, chondromalacia patella and early onset dementia(at 53). Ailments 85% resolved by one thing, adding some salt back in my diet! My knees are 2 inches less around due to the soft tissues tightening up… took a couple years tho and I can drive again like I was 30 lol And pain is just a seldom seen visitor and not a 10 year resident like it was after dropping salt from my diet…. baaad salt! NOT!
Well put. I agree. I am about to run a marathon (my first) in a couple months and have heard horror stories from runners who have low salt content during/after runs. So, while I won’t pile it on, I certainly won’t withhold it completely.
Currently, it takes 30% of all land surface to grow all the animals for food; this requires tremendous resources of energy, water, air, crops to feed the animals, and large $ subsidies by gov. More crops are grown for feeding animals than for feeding people directly. And at what cost? The air, water, soil are all polluted and so are the animals… resulting in 85% of Americans suffering from overweight, obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart, etc… plus addictions to the foods that create these problems…
If everyone all over the world ate as much meat as Americans, we would need 3 extra earth planets to raise all the animals. This alone, is yet another serious scenario for the extinction of human race. reference: http://www.worldpreservationfoundation.org/events.php
I should also mention that another huge toxic factor are all the processed “dead” foods devoid of micronutrients which basically are created due to greed without any consideration to health. So let us take note that this is one huge factor all the participants in this debate would agree on… and move on from there… processed foods have all these harmful ingredients: salt, sugars, flour, extracted oils, over-processed grains, animal flesh, unnecessary additives…
I do appreciate that no two snow flakes are alike and that each of us 7billion has a unique POV…
Here’s my POV from 40 years being a pretty good vegan complementing my spiritual practices nicely… but not without some mistakes… some of which were corrected about 9 years ago after attending one of Dr Fuhrman’s free lectures…
Dr Fuhrman’s approach http://www.drfuhrman.com is what i call common sense and honest brilliant science. To those who are mathematically inclined, it should be obvious that his health equation[ health = nutrients / calories ] is a brilliant starting point for making the Knowledge of Nutrition into a Real Science of Nutrition… instead of a never-ending debate.
The health equation tells us that green vegetables are the most nutrient dense “superfoods” if you will; several other speakers are obviously also in favor of eating lots of greens; even this alone would be a great way to improve ones nutrition and make it more alkaline…
Where do you get your protein? Where does a grazing cow get her protein? And broccoli has more protein per calorie than steak… protein is not really the issue… nutrient density… how much micro-nutrition are you getting from the food you eat… is…
Animal flesh may have lots of protein… but zip of the healing micro-nutrients, which are found in greens etc…
Dr Fuhrman’s Nutritarian appoach includes all the other veggies, fruit, healthy fats from seeds, nuts, avocados, beans… (and a little bit of whole grains for some )
He also recommends getting tested for deficiencies D, B12, DHA and supplementing accordingly. And if you are still not thriving, which can happen for a few, an amino acid profile usually can help identify perhaps a Taurine or other deficiency…
For a serious DHA deficiency, he probably would recommend a pharmaceutical filtered fish oil for some time… otherwise you can use the vegan DHA from algae supplement for regular maintenance and still be a vegan… if you want?
Even wild caught fish, like sardines, salmon, etc are not free of toxins? So the overall problem is pollution of father sky, mother earth, sister waters and brother animals… perhaps it’s too late… and human spicies have to be recycled… and reincarnate someplace else…
So, looking at the bigger picture… our best chance of preserving human species is
“Be Veg… Go Green… Save the Planet…”
That’s it folks… this has been working for me nicely… nor without challenges… which are there for our spiritual growth…
OH ! i strongly recommend everyone to see the new documentary coming out this spring :
http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com entertaining, informative, inspiring, reversal of “incurable” diseases and freedom from a boxful of meds
God Bless everyone to find suitable food for health, wisdom, happiness, peace, and ‘spiritual awakening’
Anatol
PS ~ personally i would love to be a Breatharian !